Posts by Grunt

14

Are we bitter people or just victims?

by cocolocoii in

jw
friends

i am a jehovah's witness until today, but i don't know if i'll continue to be one of them tomorrow.. i said that because for once my eyes are open to reallity and i can clearly see that there is not organization beyond our creators name.. i see a lot or imperfect man trying to do what is right, but allways those desires are corrupted by their pride or greediness.. i think that in the watch tower organization are really a lot of people who really wants to served god.

but i think too that there are a lot a people who doesn't have love and mercy for their brothers.

a well known saying says that you will catch more fly with honey than with vinager.. this doesn't mean that people are allowed to do whatever they want without any respect for god's word in the bible.

Grunt

I am angry. I was lied to and had my trust betrayed by a group of people who were themselves just as decieved as I was. I am also angry because this cult has hostages that I love.

I am bitter. I am bitter over my own stupidity and the people I hurt because of this foul group. My bitterness also grows from the fact that in my trusting ignorance I exposed innocent people and led them to believe the tortured "truths" extracted from the Bible and spun in Brooklyn into a cruel fairytale.

Despite the anger and the bitterness, I do not define my presence here by those emotions. I am here as truth-teller. I don't know if you have ever seen The Grapes of Wrath, but in one scene an Okie who has been to California and is returning tries to tell the Okies on their way out full of hope, about the tricks being played upon them, of the deceptive fliers put out with offers of good pay and lots of work. His advice is unappreciated and he is called a troublemaker. He says, "I am just trying to tell you what it took me a year, a wife and two dead children to learn" or words to that effect. It didn't matter, the hopeful Okies saw him as a liar. We are like that. We have been there and come back. We have bought experience, paid for at a premium price. We want to share that information, not for personal gain of any kind but to warn the others off the destructive path by telling them about the stench in Brooklyn and the ruses used on them.
Our true stories are disputed and we are labeled as trouble-makers. No matter. We told the truth.

Though angry and bitter I see my role as an honest eye-witness, maybe even a champion of sorts to those who don't realize they need one and who may in fact resent it. For their own sake, I try to strike down the lies and tell them the way things really are. I do not see myself as a victim but as an opponent who has won his own battle and is now helping to win the war. The enemy is a coward and no threat having only bluster and hot air with no muscle to back it up. If we can only open the eyes of these sheep to see that villian as he is then we have the victory. It has happened a lot which is encouraging.

You too have bought experience and are sharing it. It swells my heart to see the quality of the people on our side of the fray. I have no doubt that this sect will be brought to its knees and finally decaptiated. I want to be there to see it and would be happy to sharpen and if the honor was allowed, to swing the axe. There are a lot of good people being taught to hate by twisting a message of love and corrupting it with selfishness, egotism and false promises. I will be glad to see that tongue silenced, and the bricks from that group of buildings pulverized and dispersed.

29

So Whats Driving You To Make Posts?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

why do you bother to post on this site?

what good does it do you?

what do you gain from posting?.

Grunt

I post because it makes me angry to see my wife cry herself to sleep so many nights over a little girl whom she loved and raised and who now treats her like a stranger.

I post because this cult, known as Jehovah's Witnesses, claims to be pure and clean when they are dirty and false.

I post as much for the many posts I erase as the few I put in.

I post to shine the light in the faces of these phonies who love the dark so much and who put forth "A Good Witness" no matter what it costs the innocents involved.

When my daughter first stopped speaking to me I called her at home and only got the machine. I got fed up with it and called her at work. Her best friend at work picked up the phone and I told her I was my daughter's dad and could I please speak to her. The girl was real nice, said it was nice to talk to me and then went and got my daughter. I was shocked at how sweet my daughter was. It was as though nothing had happened. (The night before I had received a note under my door when we were gone. The note said she was adjusting our relationship, to ZERO) I talked to her and told her how I felt, she agreed it was all best dropped and I told her I would see her soon. I was sincere. I was heartbroken after a sleepless night of comforting her mother and wondering where we went wrong. She was acting; and giving "A good Witness." She told me later in a heated discussion that I had "Forced" her to talk by calling her at work where she "Had" to talk. Wow. It gave me a new insight into the culture of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was worried about losing my little girl. She was worried that the other girls in the office might get a negative impression of the Witnesses if they heard her shun her dad. Lie if it protects the front, no matter who it hurts. To her friend she was still a normal, loving daughter glad to talk to her dad. The truth was she thought she had sold her parents for a piece of Paradise Earth and she was just acting normal so she had a better chance of witnessing to the girl.
My wife was never a witness but got cut out as part of the package. My wife and I are always together and if it meant being around me to see her, well, what is loyalty to Jehovah without a sacrifice or two? It has been two years. The act goes on. It wounds afresh her mother who holds no grudges and just wants to know what is happening in the life of her child. My wife who would give anything and shed tears of joy if her daughter would just come and drink a cup or coffee or go shopping, or just really talk and show she still cares about her. My wife who is normal and loving, but who like so many others, has to deal with pain anytime she thinks of her daughter, every day, every night, because of this cult.

I post on occasion just to reveal that culture for what it is. Uncaring. Unloving. UnChristian.

I only speak the truth, and I always hope that the ring of that truth will strike a sympathetic vibration in someone who needs to really look at what they are becoming, protecting, and promoting.

11

All you guys

by claudia in

jw
friends

you know i have been registered here since the birth of this list.i was only a lurker from time to time, now after a recent love affair break up i have been active here.

i must say this is the most wonderful group of people i have ever seen on a db.

all respectful, and whats suprising is loving.

Grunt

Ditto. I wish that kid in California had recieved some of the care shown to Logical in his time of trouble. Maybe it could have helped that poor twisted person and saved the lives and the agony of those kids unfortuante enough to have had their lives connect with his. I just wish he had voiced his desires to take a gun and "pull a Colombine" to people like those on this board as I know he would have received advice and the police would have recieved a lot of calls.
So sad to see young lives shattered and ended for nothing. That kid gave off a lot of signals but no one took action or managed to help him see his action for the selfish, bloody, waste that it was.

Sorry, the tie in is that this board does provide a place of worth and people with a selfless desire to help and values that bear emulating, good people who try to help all they come in contact with. I appreciate that attitude and this site.

39

If you went back...

by LovesDubs in

jw
friends

ive not been to a meeting in five years probably.

yet my husband still goes and i always envision him going in and the hardy handshakes he gives, greeting and being greeted, sitting there with all those suits with the secrets hidden inside, and all those pretty dresses hiding the pain.

if i wasnt disassociated, i wonder if i would be bolder, speak up, be honest with the "friends" instead of toeing the company line.

Grunt

I went back once a year for a decade or so at Memorial. I did it out of respect for Jesus Christ. Strange that I could ever have viewed watching others partake as showing respect to Jesus but I did. As I never attended the Kingdom Hall in the places I moved to after I dropped out, there would always be a few that would come up and try and "place" me in the hierarchy, put the correct label on me. I always enjoyed thwarting this effort. Some were genuine, friendly and sincere, others were just a little nosey and wanting to hang the proper tag on me. I always took the offensive as soon as possible to keep them answering my questions instead of vice versa as I made my way out.

4

divided families

by Blackcat in

jw
friends

why is it that even though your not disfellowshipped or dissasociated and you start questioning the things you thought where truth about the org.

your so-called family members avoid you like the plague?.i find it quite comical to see how different they treat you, leaving the "truth" and keeping your mouth shut they can handle, but once you start questioning the so-called faithful and discreet slave, all hell breaks loose !!!

i,ve been accused of being anti-witness,apostate (which i dont mind) and been told that i,ve spat in the face of jah all because i have openly expressed my opinions about the org.

Grunt

One of the best posts I have read was one entitled "That Condescending Smile" written by a woman whose husband was a Witness. She said, if I remember correctly, that the thing that irritated her most about her husband was the look he got on his face when he listened to her tell her point of view on religion. It saddened me to think that it was an expression I am fairly certain I have worn back when I was trying to convert my wife. A know it all look that they put on while pretending to listen without really paying much attention until it is their turn to talk. After all they know what you have to say due to their "studying the Bible." What you have to say couldn't be important as only they have "The Truth!" Or so I and the other poor fools thought and they still think. What a joke. They know nothing of their real history, they are trusting a biased bible, and they are listening to people who even deny Christ is the mediator for all men in direct contradiction to even their own twisted bible. The gall it takes for them to use that scripture at 2 John 2:10 and pretend it applies to all the goofy teachings they have added when it really refers to denying Christ, which is what they do to 99% of mankind. When that expression comes out would be a good time to bring out the photo of the Pyramid at Russell's grave, or the quote from Rutherford on vaccinations causing syphillis and rabies and such, the chart of the history leading to the end of the 6000 years and the beginning of the Millenial reign back in '75, or maybe the Watchtower quote where they list all the errors that have had to be "corrected" recently and instead of explaining just say they should believe anyway. A "Faith" doctrine of sorts. I have no desire to relive all the years of my life, it has been good but I am pretty happy with where I am at. The one part I would give so much to relive would be the time when I, wearing that "condescending smile" argued with my wife in front of my children and caused her so much pain for so long. Or the part where I allowed my daughter to ever be alone with a Witness or enter a Kingdom Hall. Those were black days for my family and we are still reaping the sorrow attached to those ill-fated decisions. As her father I didn't protect her from this cult, because I didn't recognise it as such. If you are a Witness and you are reading this, check out your history before presumming to condescend to anyone. It could save you a lot of embarrassment and your family untold grief.

9

The Internet Saves

by anglise in

jw
friends

replying to a thread lower down made me wonder how did those who left the org years ago cope.. today we have access to virtually all the information in the world via the internet, so its not hard to find others who have had the same experiences that you have and to learn from them.. but even just a few years ago this was almost impossible.. when we came into the org in the early 1980's we did reseach as far as we were able but didnt find much in our local library.. so we were caught!!!.

those leaving the org back then must have felt isolated and even more frustrated then we do today.. i can remember being told about protesters outside conventions etc and that you musnt read their placards or take their tracts, but obviously it was the only way they had to try and help those inside the org see the real truth.. surely the thought of such an isolated existence kept many from taking the final steps to freeing themselves.. can any here relate to that.. .

edited by - anglise on 27 february 2001 17:58:22

Grunt

Please insert Preacher after "hell-fire" in my previous post. Sorry.

9

The Internet Saves

by anglise in

jw
friends

replying to a thread lower down made me wonder how did those who left the org years ago cope.. today we have access to virtually all the information in the world via the internet, so its not hard to find others who have had the same experiences that you have and to learn from them.. but even just a few years ago this was almost impossible.. when we came into the org in the early 1980's we did reseach as far as we were able but didnt find much in our local library.. so we were caught!!!.

those leaving the org back then must have felt isolated and even more frustrated then we do today.. i can remember being told about protesters outside conventions etc and that you musnt read their placards or take their tracts, but obviously it was the only way they had to try and help those inside the org see the real truth.. surely the thought of such an isolated existence kept many from taking the final steps to freeing themselves.. can any here relate to that.. .

edited by - anglise on 27 february 2001 17:58:22

Grunt

Like RedhorseWoman, I left way before the internet. The part that bothered me was that I knew they were wrong on the dates, knew they had been way off on the Kings of the North and the Pyramids, but had found this out by myself and still thought they were right about a lot of stuff which only they taught, trinity, hell, the immortality of the soul and so on. So I felt a lot of guilt that maybe despite the errors, they really were the closest thing to truth on earth and I was keeping away from them. I felt as Red did when I read Crisis of Conscience and then got on H20 and even Wit.net. The internet is wonderful. When I look at the quality of the people who have left, I am honored to be a part of that company. It takes a lot to stand up to a controlling authority figure and put it all on the line for what you think is right. Many here have walked a lonesome valley with only their integrity for company and with all the ones they love trying to blackmail them back into the false "light" being put forth by the Jehovah's Witnesses. No "hell-fire" has ever tried to frighten a congregation any more than the Witnesses do, throw in shunning with the promise of eternal destruction and it takes a lot to hold the course. Yet the boards are full of people who have done just that.

11

What's your ethical guide?

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

on what do you base your moral judgements now that you've left the wts?.

as jw's we used to allow the wt to direct us in any ethical question.

they would give us their opinion (claiming it to be bible-based).

Grunt

I believe in the Bible and in a Creator. I too try and follow the two great commandments. Still, I don't think I would behave any differently if I suddenly lost my faith. I have a good friend who is an athiest and he is at least as moral and ethical as I am. I think just common decency as seems to be found around the world would keep us squared away.

16

For My Dad.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

today, the 28 february, is 17 years since my dad died.

every year, on this day, i speak to my jw mum on the telephone, just to say hello mum, i know this isn`t your favourite day.. every year that passes, she tells me that, every morning on this date, when she wakes, she tells herself that today is just another day, there is nothing special about it.. well, today i told her that today was special.

the sun and earth were in the same place, the season was the same.

Grunt

My heartfelt sympathy to both of you and to your mom, Englishman, on the loss of your loved ones.

21

WT cultural imperialism?

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

i've been thinking about americans.

specifically about whether the wt, being an american dominated religion, forces american attitudes and culture upon other nations.. now, don't get me wrong, i'm not anti-american.

living in canada i have a lot of contact with many americans.

Grunt

What a pleasure to find so many who appreciate the same literature! Yes, I have read all of the Sharpe's this and that books and really enjoyed them, though not if read too close together. I thought I'd found another Forester when I found Alexander Kent, but Bolitho (sorry ex-pat) just got too weepy for me in the later novels. I love the Aubrey/Maturin combination, kind of neat to do the spy thing way back then. Still, my favorite remains Bush and Hornblower, I got lost in those novels though they did have the effect of poisoning my mind a little what with his sterotyping of the Frogs, I mean French, and the Spanish. I have even found myself Hahumphing like Hornblower now and then when at a loss for words or wanting to correct someone without saying the words. I was under cultural attack I guess and didn't know it. I have shared those stories with many, many people and helped a few others to become fans.
DannyBear, Nope, I am not Semper Fi, I was just a grunt in the Third Battalion, Third Marines, I think he was a communincations guy (though all Marines are riflemen(grunts)first).
Thanks to those who accepted my apology for the Cult of The Leaning Tower. Thanks even more to those who said my apology was not needed, there are villians in all cultures.
I didn't know the WT was pushing "sensitive men" that was not the thrust when I was in, but it has been a while. Funny that they could print a magazine showing all those poor children whom they allowed to die for naught, and then promote sensitivity. Well, the Japanese of WWII, who ran some of the worst POW camps of the war, who kidnapped women and made them army whores, who slaughtered uncounted numbers of Chinese and who commited the Rape of Nanking, thought of themselves as cultured gentlemen too.
To return to the subject, I think anything from any democratic western nation probably had a strong pull for those emerging from communism. I am so sad for those who confused blue jeans, rock n' roll and democracy with the Tower, just because of the home address. Thinking people will soon see the difference and hopefully flee the new spritiual tryanny being imposed on them by the Borg. As says a state motto here in the U.S., I say, "Live Free or Die." Of course I may have been influenced in that attitude by Lord Greystroke's uncompromising courage (an American author's British hero) or maybe the Charge of the Light Brigade. This thread has caused me to think carefully about the sources of some of my attitudes. Alabama as I grew up had some of the "God is an Englishman, White Man's Burden" kind of outlook. I am glad we moved beyond that, I will be even happier when we move beyond large controlling cults like the one known as Jehovah's Witnesses, no matter where they are from.