Freddie Franz was my favorite. Next to Russell and Rutherford, his stupid predictions and opinions did the most to discredit and show the Tower for what it is, a cult. It would not be unreasonable for Jehovah to call it a cult either, nor would it be anything less than appropriate for it to be destroyed in the fall of 2002. Russell would say, "Yes and Mars will be aligned with Venus at that time, besides measuring the Grand Staircase of the Great Pyramid using an inch for a year....hmmm metric??? Why that could change everything!"
Posts by Grunt
-
33Favourite Governing Body memeber?
by the follower ini have noticed that there is a tendency in this group to speak injuriously of glorious ones.
in an attempt to help us be more "balanced" in this regard i invite all to share which governing body members they like.
who is your favourite governing body member?
-
-
-
37
What does the average Witness know?
by Grunt ini have to wonder what the average witness today knows?
i guess they are under orders not to talk to anyone that might actually be able to inform them of any facts that are negative or unflattering to the society, but what have they found out anyway, through whatever means, even the publications?.
1. do they know that russell got a lot of dates from the measurements of pyramids, including 1914?
-
-
Grunt
I have to wonder what the average Witness today knows? I guess they are under orders not to talk to anyone that might actually be able to inform them of any facts that are negative or unflattering to the Society, but what have they found out anyway, through whatever means, even the publications?
1. Do they know that Russell got a lot of dates from the measurements of pyramids, including 1914? I wonder if the average Witness knows where he is buried, or that he has a pyramid on his grave?
2. Does the average witness know that the Society teaches that Christ is not their mediator? Most I have talked to don't but it has been printed a lot of different places at a lot of different times. I would like to know just how many are really aware of it or its implications.
3. Does the average "publisher" realize that the organization decided to make the publications available for "donations" to avoid taxes? That it was done AFTER having been involved in a court case as a legal "friend" to Jimmy Swaggart while he fought those taxes, or that they still charge for the publications in other places with different tax laws? Places where money is much more scarce?
4. Could the average Witness know about all the components of blood being legal or about material made from cow's blood being approved in some cases by the Organization? I hope they know, it means thier lives and the lives of their loved ones. I tried to tell my father this and he shook his head, "Son, we don't take blood, any blood at all!" He doesn't know almost all blood parts are ok, and could die as a result. I wish he knew.
5. Are most of the members of the congregation aware of the flip-flops of the past on everything from all Witnesses being ministers, refusing alternative service, the changed understands on what fornication was, the uproar and divorces caused over the Organization's changed views on oral sex, the change saying transplants are ok from taking transplants being cannibalism? If they do know, I wonder if they have thought about how many lives were ruined by the "old" views and of the humiliation of the people because of them?
6. Do you think the big change on "This Generation" impacted the regular people who make up the organization very hard? Do they know about all the changes in ages to support it before it was dropped? How the ages of the "generation" were stretched before it was dropped? Did they think about it and just how enormous that change was in relation to all the statements they had made about it? Or did they just gulp and swallow it all like castor oil and refuse to think about it?
7. Do you think most Witnesses have lost loved ones to "apostasy" seen young relatives walk away, and lost their confidence in the Watchtower Society as being the TRUTH, the only ones with the truth?
I wonder if the average Witness is troubled, especially the older ones who were in back before 75. I just wonder if they feel a little sick as they read the same old jargon and remember their history. I wonder if there is anything the Society could do that they wouldn't pardon or refuse to see? I guess the many immediate family members here whose only sins have been to point out such flaws are a partial answer to that.
-
19
Was J.F. Rutherford - Exonerated?
by Amazing inone of the cornerstones of the watchtower society's claims about the 1918 trial of joseph f. rutherford and seven other co-defendants, is that the trial was a travesty of justice, where the defendants were railroaded off to prison.. to make their point, the society has repeatedly stated that joseph rutherford and his fellow defendants were "exonerated" of all charges, and subsequently released from prison fully vindicated.
the society also attributed this 'victory' to jehovah's hand in matters, restoring the symbolic 'two witnesses' spoken of in revelation, and thereby, reactivating the kingdom preaching work.. what actually transpired is that the convicted defendants filed a petition for a "writ of error.
" (trial transcript, pages 1-10, parts 1-30 ) the writ of error was allowed by the trial court, judge howe, and granted by the district court judge chatfield, whom the society earlier objected to and had removed from their trial, because they felt he would not be fair to them.. what does this mean?
-
-
Grunt
Thanks for digging this up. I always found the claim that these days spent in jail in Atlanta fulfilled a Bible prophecy about as convincing as I found the important date of 1932 so inspiring. It was and is bullshit. It amazes me that I could ever have been involved with these people. My only defense is I didn't look too close because so many people I cared about were involved and they established their credibility with me by disproving the trinity, hell-fire and christmas. What a fool I was and what a fool any poor dupe being conned into supporting this group today is making of him or her self. Thanks again for an excellent post.
-
13
Watchtower V's apostates who is winning?
by sleepy inwho's got the upper hand at the moment, the watchtower org or the apostates.. when you first leave and find out there are many other like you , you can feel like the watchtower org is crumbling.but many have been out for years and the watchtower has continued to grow.. are efforts by apostates working?.
or is the watchtower able to easily counter them?.
do most leave the org due to efforts by those who have already walked out , or do most find their own way?.
-
-
Grunt
Metatron,
I see it as just the opposite. For years the small cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses were so obscure as to only gain attention in times of war when their refusal to salute a flag rankled, or on Saturday mornings when trying to sleep in and their persistent knock spoiled it. Now they have grown into a still small, but large enough to be noticed cult and like a termite infestation that has begun to do some damage, they demand attention. Not much, just a little spray of truth to expose them to the light which, like the termites, they cannot abide. Luckily it happened just as the internet was there to help spotlight them.
I see them as losing. They are losing because their real beliefs are being exposed and they will not bear close examination. They have a caste system when caste systems are on the way out. They are losing because they are out of step with reality and technology and can only demand that the technology that exposes them not be used. Banned in Boston, was the best way to make sure a book was read. Stay off the internet is about the same. The main reason they are losing though, is because their children see through them. Thank god. Think about your family, how many are still zealots? How many kids are? There lies the downfall of the Tower. Another reason for their fall will be the enemies they have made. I would love to bulldoze Bethel to rubble and then use it as gravel for a septic tank. The cold hatred I and so many others harbor for this arrogant group of hypocrites should stand as some sort of gauge as to their future. Real empires have been torn down by people with no less desire to see them fall than mine and many others here towards this sham religion, this paper tiger, this victimizer of children and the vulnerable, this doomed cult. It will follow the shakers into oblivion, only the Witnesses will leave no good behind, not even their furniture. Their most permanent markers will be the families torn apart by their lies and narrow minds, as well as the gravestones of the children and others who died uselessly following their sage advice. -
55
Things That Make You Go 'Hmmmmm'
by Farkel ini was trying to do a little catching-up on posts this afternoon and read the thread where leander discussed his resignation as a ms as he is ending his days as a dub.
congratulations, leander!
you made the right choice!
-
-
Grunt
"Can you prove that Bethelites are thieves? If not, hush up until you have evidence! The world is dangerous. We are not worried about our brothers. It is peeps like you that worry us."
That is true, about most Bethelites not being thieves, I think. I would guess we probably have the highest percentage of Bethelites and ex-Bethelites on the net posting here and most seem very honest to me. Maybe it is their "vow of poverty" that keeps them honest. Maybe it is their lack of ambition or desire for a "worldly life." Maybe it is their sure knowledge (as all of their knowledge is sure until the next tack) that not having a Christ to act as go-between they have to depend on the Boys at Bethel and they are notoriously unforgiving. Maybe the rooms are locked for other reasons. I hope they keep them locked. With all the Jehovah's Witness pedophiles and murderers the fewer places they can get to the better. Take the magazines and leave the children alone. As for anyone really wanting the literature, I think they have placed about the right value on it and in this case you do actually get what you pay for. I do wish they made them in erasable ink so they could really be used for something worthwhile after they have served their role as props for the faithful. I guess with subscriptions being cancelled that will be less and less of a problem. Once they get down to the members only they could claim they are printed in invisible ink and only print the questions. There would be less for people that actually think about what they read to take objection to also. Might cut down on the enormous numbers who are voting with their feet.
Glad you are here by the way, triple dip, keep your ears open while you are slinging insults, you could learn a lot. Like taking cow's blood is now ok, and what will be on your convention programs. You might even learn to show empathy and spark a synapse or two in the process that could lead you out of that dark cave you have chosen to live in.
Nice talking to you,
-
22
Its time for me to Leave
by radar inthis is goodbye from me folks!.
my son keeps taunting me saying are you on that jo bo site again.
it is true, i have spent too much time here, staring into the computer screen waiting for a revelation or something to catch my interest or imagination.. when i think about all that time and all those years spent as a watchtower slave, well it does leave you empty and with time on your hands dont it?.
-
-
Grunt
Good Luck Radar,
I have to disagree with you in regards to what you said about being free from the cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses. I had been free from them for years before ever posting here. The only hold they have on most of us are the hostages they hold. These hostages are held by ignorance and blind faith. Sites like this shine a light into that dark hole of misinformation and lies and expose the ignorance allowing some who are strong enough to see the flaws revealed to act to free themselves. I am here to help shine that light, to help encourage them in their freedom and to learn the latest outrages and lies told by the Tower so I can better expose and oppose them. I have learned a lot here, as I did at H20. Hemopure, the court cases resulting in the imprisonment of pedophiles posing as christians, the Watchtower coverup of the same, the ongoing information that pours onto this site every week. I also enjoy the company of people like Waiting, Red Horse Woman and so many, many more who have earned my respect through their postings. I hope you do keep checking in. I also hope wherever you are and whatever you do that you won't be shy about telling people you were once in the cult and why you left it. We ex-members are the greatest force against this Tower of lies.Once again, godspeed and all the best to you and yours,
-
25
What "hooked" you?
by roybatty inim not sure if this has been discussed before but id be interested to read some comments from those who became jws later in life.
what caught your attention and sucked you in?.
my parents became jws when i was 5 years old, so it was pretty much the only way of life that i knew.
-
-
Grunt
I had just got out of the Marines, went home and my mom and dad had become Witnesses. I had always read the Bible on my own and thought I knew it enough to straighten them out. I'd never heard of the trinity, believed in hell fire, and thought Christmas was strictly legit. When I had those disproven the nice people studying with me, who had moved to where the need was great and given up so much, had gained a lot of credibility with me. So I began my "research" with them guiding me and using the Witness books complete with questions at the bottom of the page. What a joke. HOW STUPID WAS I! Dumb enough to fight the woman I loved for years over it. I did remain critical of several things though, the dates for one. I never bought all the goofy dates and prophecies, 1914, 1935, and the crazy time charts in the books equating insignificant events with giant ones. Like Exodus from Egypt, Jerusalem Destroyed, Divine Rulership Assembly. Anyway, when I found an old book with the pyramids, showing Napoleon as the King of the South and Great Britain as the King of the North (I believe it was) and getting year for a step or an inche measurements from the Great Pyramid, well, that did it for me. I had already had friction over the Creative Days. I moved away and stopped attending. If I had it to do again the main thing I would never have done is let my daughter be around her witness relatives. I broke away and thought that had protected all of us, but I was wrong. It cost me my child. When I was leaving Camp Pendleton there were big signs asking for people to become cops in L.A. and to work for the the power company. Despite the problems both have had, I should probably have done one or the other and protected my children. I just didn't know.
-
33
Order of Importance: WT over the Bible
by Jourles incan you find the society's visual ranking of importance?.
.
-
-
Grunt
How about an honest sign? One that says "Read The Bible (but remember it is really aimed at only 6000 people earth-wide all are Jehovah's Witnesses and all the IMPORTANT ones live here!) P.S. It will only help if we are there to explain it. P.S. P.S. printing press slaves needed."
-
16
How sweet.. a loving plea from my brother
by noidea ini am writing to express my concern for your welfare, both physically and even more importantly, spiritually.. i know that you have long resented me and any help in a spiritual way that i have tried to help.
the resentment goes way back and to tell you the truth, i don't know why you have felt this way.
anyway, i know that you don't want the help from the 'brothers', so i feel that i need to try at least one more time to help you reason on which direction you are going.
-
-
Grunt
Not trying to be cynical, but the last time I got a long letter like this, it was from a cousin who was pioneering and yeah, he was counting it as time. Funny. I guess when you get down to it, I wasn't disfellowshipped or DA'd so maybe I am a legitimate target or something, or course HE knows I am "apostate" as they see it. Legalisms. I hope he wasn't counting time on you.
-
Letter to the Editor
by Grunt inwhile over at rado's site admiring all his work and achivements, i read an article in an arizona newspaper telling about a quickbuild.
it was the usual admiring article.
all about the selfless workers, the well organized job, how most churches contracted this work out but they did it themselves, that sort of thing.
-
Grunt
While over at Rado's site admiring all his work and achivements, I read an article in an Arizona newspaper telling about a quickbuild. It was the usual admiring article. All about the selfless workers, the well organized job, how most churches contracted this work out but they did it themselves, that sort of thing. I wrote a letter to the editor and told him to please research the group before advertizing for them. I told him I was an ex-member and pointed out several views the group held, that I didn't imagine his paper wanted to promote, shunning family members, demanding total agreement with all WatchTower beliefs, refusal to allow life saving medical treatment and finally hiding pedophiles. I doubt it gets published, though I filled out all the forms and gave all the information asked for, but maybe, just maybe they won't push this cult again without checking them out first. Do any of you write letters to the editor about the Society? Have any been published? I know I could lose my parents if this became known and I did give my real name and address but I just couldn't stand to see this family destroying cult pushed like the Boy Scouts and Apple Pie religion that it ISN'T.