I just wanted to add in addition to my above post, that I am also torn about this phenomenon, be it witnesses or Nazi's I don't know that people aren't just sneaky and manipulative and enjoy the drama of shunning. But it seems they share company with the majority of the population-at least when the above study was done.
milligal
JoinedPosts by milligal
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53
The Friends Ain't So Friendly
by StAnn ini've been thinking.
a lot of posts i read here say things about how the jws are all victims; how people feel so sorry for them; how people believe that the jws they know are really good people who are trapped in a lie.
then i read a lot of other posts about the cruel things the jws do, like shunning, ignoring df'd people on the side of the road with a flat tire, refusing to be charitable to their fellow humans, delighting at the impending deaths of millions of people, and blaming all of their coldness and heartlessness on the fact that they're just following orders from the gb.
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53
The Friends Ain't So Friendly
by StAnn ini've been thinking.
a lot of posts i read here say things about how the jws are all victims; how people feel so sorry for them; how people believe that the jws they know are really good people who are trapped in a lie.
then i read a lot of other posts about the cruel things the jws do, like shunning, ignoring df'd people on the side of the road with a flat tire, refusing to be charitable to their fellow humans, delighting at the impending deaths of millions of people, and blaming all of their coldness and heartlessness on the fact that they're just following orders from the gb.
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milligal
There was a study done at Yale in the 70's. A psychologist told a median group of people -all age ranges, all economic status's that they were doing a learning test and the person in the room behind a glass wall, was supposed to answer some questions correctly, when they didn't the person doing the test was supposed to shock them, (the ''student' who was part of the test was supposedly wired up in a chair able to receive up to 350 volts. the blind person did not know that the chair was not sending real shocks). Shockingly, 60% of participants were willing to shock a perfect stranger on command.
The reason for this study was the psychologist was studying the Nazi phenomenon and wondered why people would behave that way. he concluded that you could find enough Nazi's to fill any concentration camp in any American town.
It's hard to admit, but humanity is something we have to think about and be sure we are making right choices. It doesn't come naturally to everyone.
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5
Homosexualtiy and morality
by milligal indid you ever wonder why 'men of god' were allowed to have concubines and use prostitutes in the old testament,and being told by your jw elder or study conductor something like: 'god's will was to fill the earth, so he allowed men to have more than one wife or concubine to fulfill his purpose...' ?.
then by this same reasoning why would god have a problem with homosexuality at this point in time-the earth has been filled, in fact it's almost too full in some areas.
so doesn't homosexuality now make sense....consistently speaking?
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milligal
Did you ever wonder why 'men of God' were allowed to have concubines and use prostitutes in the old testament,and being told by your JW elder or study conductor something like: 'God's will was to fill the earth, so he allowed men to have more than one wife or concubine to fulfill his purpose...' ?
Then by this same reasoning why would God have a problem with homosexuality at this point in time-the earth has been filled, in fact it's almost too full in some areas. So doesn't homosexuality now make sense....consistently speaking?
And when men were first told they could no longer use prostitutes, or concubines doesn't it make sense there would have been a social evolution that had to take place and that some men (and maybe even women) must have had a huge problem with the idea of changing this age old tradition, which they also thought of as morally correct? Yet the change still happened and today, we place moral correctness on monogamy. Social evolution mirrored moral trends.
My question is why should homosexuality be thought of any differently? Moral trends have changed throughout history to reflect social customs and evolutionary needs. Our species is in no danger of dying out (at least at the hand of procreation) why should we still hold homosexuals to an age old tradition that we see as morally correct?
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JWs Are Like Others: They Take The Good With The Bad
by minimus inthe more i dwell on people, in general, the more i realize that jws act pretty much the same as others.. if someone is in a marriage, they accept the good and the bad and simply accept the differences.. some people have jobs that they don't love but it's the lesser of 2 evils to be employed, so they stay at the same place for decades.. in politics, you might not be crazy over the person in the party that you prefer but you stick with the candidate for better or worse.. many jws have certain things they don't like about their religion but stay in their congregations because "where else would they go?
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perhaps jehovah's witnesses are no different than the average person.....what do you say?.
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milligal
The definition of average -as far as I learned in social science is: what at least 60% of the people in a given society are doing.
So, based on that, JW's are not average (in my opinion )
Interestingly, my social science book also taught that religions like JW are on the bottom rung of the social ladder in American society-as they contribute little or nothing to the growth of the community.
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21
JWs Are Like Others: They Take The Good With The Bad
by minimus inthe more i dwell on people, in general, the more i realize that jws act pretty much the same as others.. if someone is in a marriage, they accept the good and the bad and simply accept the differences.. some people have jobs that they don't love but it's the lesser of 2 evils to be employed, so they stay at the same place for decades.. in politics, you might not be crazy over the person in the party that you prefer but you stick with the candidate for better or worse.. many jws have certain things they don't like about their religion but stay in their congregations because "where else would they go?
" .
perhaps jehovah's witnesses are no different than the average person.....what do you say?.
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milligal
Actually I think JW's are made up largely of mentally abnormal people-at least the ones I knew! It just seemed that people who could not find acceptance anywhere else, or people who had been abused and mistreated, LOVE the attention and acceptance they initially feel at the meetings.
I don't think JW's are average. I think many of them enter the religion for personal reasons (socially needy or emotionally empty) and then the religion cuts them off further from normalcy as we know it. If they were made up of average people, I think there would be more than 4+million worldwide, when there are 300 million people in America alone. More average people would flock to the religion if it were attractive to average people.
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American Politics...leave it to the Americans
by Who are you? insimons board rules "if you don't like the policies, you are free to leave" sounds a lot like the neocons battle cry of "my country love it or leave it"...the irony is palpablesimon's disdain of american political ideology is understandable.
i remember on my first of dozens of trips to europe, standing in line to board the ferry that crossed lake chiemsee to one of king ludwig's castles.
though we were talking quietly, it became apparent that we were a couple of americans mixed in with the german majority.
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milligal
Wow.
Look, non-American people, we Americans are not personally responsible for the George W phenomenon. I didn't vote for him, nor did anyone I know. He was elected despite the popular vote; which means the majority of U.S citizens voted against him. It was the Supreme Court that voted him into office and 84% of Americans currently hate the job this administration is doing. We got one-upped with the democratic system this time.
Additionally, I've been to Europe a couple times and found Europeans (for the most part) extremely hospitable to my American'ness' (minus the French).
Don't forget most of us Americans are actually just Europeans who vacated the mother ship-don't be so hard on us!
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21
gay-parship adverts
by The Nothing Man ini consider them inappropiate, won't do anything for current witnesses curious about the truth about the truth if they see gay dating adverts on this site; it will just strengnthen their resolve that apostates are bad.
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i don't visit here much, and i know this point will be contested, what with so many 'open minded' people on here, but i think it dents our operation in helping people see the truth.
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milligal
Maybe all heterosexual ads should also be taken off.
I mean the gay people have no interest in them- so shouldn't we respect their rights too? Wouldn't any god fearing individual be offended by the word sex alltogether? I'll answer my own question:
Who cares what person sleeps with who....not relevant. If any ex-JW wannabes see the word 'gay' on this sight and shrivel up into a ball then maybe they aren't ready for the real world anyway.
Hold on to your socks fella's gay rights are the next big civil rights movement in the U.S. (and I am pro-civil rights)
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well, children are mature enough to take a stand in behalf of the kingdom
by aligot ripounsous ini heard this morning the "who will be saved (n 126) " public talk.
the speaker raised the point of age baptism and he confirmed what has been pointed out a couple of times on this board, namely that, according to a trend which seems to be fairly recent within the wts, people don't have to be adults to decide they want to become jws and get baptism.
the only two examples which the speaker selected were 2 children : manaseh who, at age 12, promoted idolatry, and king yoshia who restored jehovah's worship as soon as he came to power at age 8 !
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milligal
This teaching sickens me the most, being as I am df'd and my son (9) will be pressured by his JW dad to get baptised. Before you know it, the old shun your mom or else issue will be raised. Why can't they leave well enough alone? Nevermind, I know the answer to that.
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Ever been made to convince unbelieving parent to let you go to meetings?
by grizzly32 inmy parents divorced when i was about 6 and my mom married someone studying who became my stepfather.
we became one big happy disfunctional/tyrannical family with stepdad as dictator.
he thought it was important for me and my sister to get to meetings even while with our unbelieving dad.
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milligal
This is a really good subject. I never was exactly in your shoes-other than being raised a JW and telling my grandma she was going to die at armageddon if she didn't go to meetings (my mom told me to encourage her-when you're six that's encouragement).
Now my son lives with his JW dad and has visitations with me-his dad just tried the old -I need extra time to take him to the kingdom hall in your town ploy. I said 'No, he's too young to be put in that position' and that was the end of it. I have worked hard after a long custody battle (to which I gave in) to rebuild my life and my ex no matter how pushy and asshole-ish he is knows that when I do say NO I mean it.
I am also studying to be a lawyer and my being the non-custodial parent gives me more rights in court. He has taken me to court with me representing myself against his attorney-and they lost so I have earned my stripes. I feel sorry for your dad if it wasn't that way for him. JW's can make the unbelieving parent nuts if they are allowed to.
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10
About rules and life
by purplesofa inhaving taken a long break from jwd, from personal circumstances not with any frustration or conflict here, and now spending a few days focused at jwd, it's great to come back.. the same issues are being posted, new posters with same problems, concerns, heartbreaks, eyes opened, just beginning to have their doubts confirmed.....how wonderful.
with loving and caring people to help out.. i wanted to respond to journey-on's thread earlier but wanted to collect my thoughts and now it is locked.. the internet, cyberworld, discussions boards are a tricky thing.
we (i think esp the people that come here) are very passionate about what we do here.
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milligal
Purp-That was such a nice post. Well thought out.
I wanted to add that I have actually gone on other boards as a type of experiment (no other ex-JW boards) but other boards that interested me, and I pushed different boundaries to learn the rules on my own. As ex-JW's haven't we all learned by experience after leaving?
I just wanted to say that for me personally, it works to keep a thick skin, I don't get involved in discussions that I feel I will debate with too much passion because I know from experience I can hurt other people's feelings easily, and I try to put things softly, (please, thank you and all the other manners in between).
With that said I feel that this board is really productive for those of us coming out of the fog. If you can find some personal boundaries that work for you, you can use this interaction as part of a healing process-talking to other people who understand a part of your life that no one else would.
I hope that each person on here can find a way to make it work for them.