If you can get the meeting to be held at your house, have it in the same room as your computer. You can use the computer to record the conversation. No worries about tapes running out, etc... just a $20 microphone.
Hmmm
Posts by Hmmm
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18How to tape secretly?
by OhHappyDay inplease answer me in private:.
i do need to taoe a meeting secretly.
wich kind of equipment do you suggest??.
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8
I'm facing a new dilemma...
by Stash Daytripper ini have been floating on these boards for close to a week now.
kudos to all you peeps who actively search out the real truth and make it apparent to everyone.
i posted my personal story earlier, hopefully those that read it will understand my dilemma now.... do i try to convert my brother out of the organization?.
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Hmmm
Stash,
I am undergoing a very similar dilemma. I wish I had answers for you, but right now I'm just as clueless. Is the pseudo-happiness of not knowing any better worth the risk of the dangerous and life-threatening doctrinal errors of the group?
I face a situation that is pretty similar to yours (which is unique enough that I'm not ready to discuss publically for fear of exposure). I'd appreciate it if you'd keep me posted on your thought process during this decision, and what you decide to do eventually. I'm sure everyone would like to know--from the sounds of it, there are quite a few here with similar circumstances.
Hmmm
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18
The Number of the Beast
by Yerusalyim inthis is my 616th post!
did you know that some divurgent texts of rev 13:18 state that the number of the beast is 616?
did you know that ceasar nero's name, in the greek form, spelled with hebrew letters adds up (numerically) to 666, and that the latin form of nero's name in hebrew letters add up to 616?
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Hmmm
ebay item 237468934
Item Description: The Beast
Current high bid: $6.66
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BOE DA-GB Instructions
by messenger inmarch 24, 2000. to all bodies of elders in the united states.
dear brothers:.
in reporting cases when individuals have disassociated themselves by engaging in nonneutral activities, the following direction should be followed.
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Hmmm
NOTICE OF DISCIPLINARY ACTION
Date:
October 15, 2001Name: Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses
Offense/sin: Violated neutrality
Description (in cases of sexual offense, please be very detailed):
Joined in with the rest of Christendom in associating with the United Nations. This association was initiated by the Governing Body, who were not coerced or pressured to do so. As part of the Harlot, the Governing Body rode the back of the Wild Beast for almost ten years before being exposed by ex and current Witnesses. Even after the sin was exposed, the Governing Body refused to admit to their followers that they had done anything that violated neutrality.Recommended Action As is well known, Jehovah's Witnesses only allow pedophiles to deny responsibility in the face of overwhelming evidence and remain in good standing. Therefore, we recommend disfellowshipping the entire Governing Body, and also recommend that the Service and Writing departments be investigated as to their involvement and/or covering over of this sin.
Form S-77
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45
Persuasion: Did we forget what we learned as JWs?
by larc inas jws we learned a lot about persuasion and how to get people to accept our ideas.
we had role plays on over coming objections.
we were taught how to anticipate typical questions and respond to them.
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Hmmm
While I try to avoid the more nasty discussions, I also have a rather sarcastic nature, and I'll flex those muscles on occasion.
I do, however, find myself sometimes employing some JW tactics... I LIE! I was just IMing a guy the other day, asking about NGO and other topics. He asked if I was a former JW. I said that I was a baptized JW who was not DFd or DAd, but had some serious questions about some teachings. I guess my statements would have held up in court, but I committed half a dozen lies of omission.
Much of the time it depends on the listener. I remember when I was a die-hard JW. I wouldn't have listened to anybody, no matter how compelling the argument. Anybody who tried to present the facts to me in a mild, non-confrontational manner would be ignored. Let's face it, to be non-confrontational, you usually have to make allowances for their crack-brained beliefs. How many times did we stand at the doors and say "uh huh" to someone spouting their personal feelings on religion. As soon as we got off the porch, we laughed at their decidedly un-scriptural thoughts, but we couldn't tell them that at the door, or they never would have allowed us back for that statistics-padding return visit!
When my walls started crumbling, I then sought out the information, but tried to avoid the more aggressive, "hateful" sites. But I have to admit that it was probably the hard-hitting, take-no-prisoners sites and people that put the subconscious cracks in my walls, and allowed the smooth talkers into my head.
That said, I don't think it helps curious JWs much to be mercilessly attacked and lambasted for asking honest questions. But I also don't think there's a whole lot of that happening here. The JWs who get attacked most vociferously are the ones who are not earnestly seeking answers, but are counting time battling apostates. Heck, we're much harder on each other than on JWs (I even got bashed a few days ago for (horror of horrors) saying I thought Fredhall was a maroon).
Hmmm
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17
Moral question
by uncle_onion inyou decide:.
i have a moral question for you.
imaginary situation, but i think.
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No question here. I'd chuck the camera and save his ass!
Don't you know there's like a $10,000,000.00 reward on his head? If I let him float away, some goat herder down the river is going to be rich!
Hmmm
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26
link to new york times discussion
by starlitestarbrite ini have enclosed the link for already registered members to post about the un stuff.
the more we talk about it, the bigger a deal it will become.
we want all the news(papers and stations) to broadcast this.. http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/[email protected]^[email protected]
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Hmmm
hsmew
That is one lousy BB design. I saw your question, and responded to it, but I can't make heads or tails of that board.
Hmmm
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17
Evolutionary Path
by msil inas one of the knowledge-seekers who has not had the means or opportunity to do a lot of research i have benefitted greatly from the work of alan, jan and some some others.. i have a question concerning the different "paths" which are followed on the way "out" of the dubs.
how many paths are there?
how does one find the questions to ask - without getting stuck in a direction?.
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Now, I am free to pursue those passions I gave up - and in addition, my passion in life now is to bring accountability to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society
Amazing, your all-consuming passion in life is to be an Accountant for the WT?!?! Well.... to each his own.msil,
I think you and I are at precisely the same point. I'm not sweating it right now. I owe myself some time to focus on my life, career, and just plain have some fun.Hmmm
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MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...
by hawkaw inas of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.
and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .
after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk
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Hmmm
Is there any way this letter, or a similar announcement, will be posted on a non-apostate site? Some people will be shocked/interested enough to wade in with the deeminz at Randy and Kent's sites, but others (like my family) won't even consider it.
Hmmm
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38
Help!! I am extremely confused.
by Leander ini'm at a definite crossroad in my life right now and i don't know which direction to turn.. for my entire life i've been taught to believe in one thing but now i'm seeing things that i never knew where there before.
i find it very disturbing that there has been so many predictions the wts has made in the past that failed to come true.
also the bouncing back and forth on certain doctrines make me question my beliefs.. but on the other hand i can't ignore things like the fact the organization is growing while other religions are on the decline.
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Leander,
You are now where many of us are or have been. Congratulations on making it this far. Honestly, I don't think many who allow themselves to question their JW beliefs to this extent (to actually, <gasp>, do independent research!) last much longer in the bOrganization.
There have been extensive discussions on all of your concerns here and on other web sites over the years. One site that has helped many come to terms with these nagging doubts is freeminds.org. Give it a look-see.
I'd like to just offer a few rebuttals to some of your points. You can look up the information for more detailed explanations
But on the other hand I can't ignore things like the fact the organization is growing while other religions are on the decline
Growth is no indication of God's approval. In the US, Mormons are growing faster than JWs (JW growth rate is actually decreasing) and worldwide Islam is growing a gazillion times faster than JWs.JW's have learned many things about the bible that other religions don't know
That's debateable. I used to think the same thing, until I started really looking into it. You mentioned 1914 for example. Do you realize how many JW teachings stem from or depend on this one? You've already mentioned that there's no historical evidence that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607. If 1914 is wrong, then not only does it show they don't have God's approval (this is no minor issue to be wrong about) but their whole doctrinal house of cards tumbles.Also their seems to be a certain unity and cohesiveness within the organization
This is a point that I used to believe wholeheartedly, and nobody could tell me differently. But is it unity if you're afraid to voice an opinion that's even slightly different from the GBs? Is it unity when you're made to feel disloyal for even THINKING they might be wrong about the tiniest issue? People have to put on a smiling face at the meetings because if they don't, they'll be labelled as spiritually weak. Also, ask the thousands who are disfellowshipped every year for making human mistakes how cohesive and loving the organization is.The preaching work is done all over the world by witnesses.
It they're not preaching the truth, it really means little. Besides, the world is a mighty big place, and there are HUGE chunks of it that've never heard of Witnesses. It's not nearly as extensive as they'd have us believe. (Almost 1/3 of the world's population lives in China and India, where there is virtually no preaching being done by Witnesses)Keep up the search, Leander. I have little doubt that before long you'll be on this side of the fence, wondering how you ever bought into all that stuff.
Hmmm