Posts by mindmelda

108

Tea Partiers Say They Would Absolutely Abolish Social Security

by sammielee24 in

jw
friends

please, please, please let the libertarians, republicans and their offshoot the tea party, run on this issue.

oh my heavens what a joy it would be to line up all the runners and tell half of the americans - the vast majority of those who actually live on their social security, that they want to take it away.

abolish it.

mindmelda

No it wasn't. Things were going swimmingly until about 1929.

52

after reading 'the greatest show on earth' by dawkins, i have been intrigued by how biblical literalists explain the many findings that seem to support evolution and contradict various parts of the bible.

in doing to i have browsed around on aig but i have generally felt let down by the quality of evidence and interpretations they present.

so i would like to ask all non-evolutionists: if i wanted to learn more about the physical case against evolution, what books should i read?

mindmelda

Um...Fossils? No book against evolution I've read (and I've read a lot of them) explains them away very easily.

That's because it's hard to explain away the concrete.

"The Science of God" is the best one I can recommend, but it doesn't totally debunk evolution, it just inserts God into it.

That's about as good as it gets, in my humble opinion.

By the way, you do know that evolution doesn't necessarily address in concrete and undebatable terms the origin of life....just the progress and advancement of it through eons of the planet's history? The origins are still somewhat speculative...although there obviously was an origin point for it, but since there's no fossil evidence of it, life being pretty minute and not possessed of what it takes to leave a fossil then, no...no one is sure of the EXACT mechanism. There's some decent theories out there, though.

If you still believe that man came wholly formed out of the ground, I can't help you much with finding literal scientific or even logical support for that. If you're into fantasy, I recommend Tolkkien. He's a better writer and there's elves.

I know the creation of man (and everything else) supposed to be a miracle, but I still can't find a decent definition for a miracle either. It's either stuff that can't happen in this dimension or stuff that I don't understand yet. Not really helpful as it doesn't help you figure out how it happens.

108

Tea Partiers Say They Would Absolutely Abolish Social Security

by sammielee24 in

jw
friends

please, please, please let the libertarians, republicans and their offshoot the tea party, run on this issue.

oh my heavens what a joy it would be to line up all the runners and tell half of the americans - the vast majority of those who actually live on their social security, that they want to take it away.

abolish it.

mindmelda

Well, you could invest your money yourself and take your chances rather than giving it to Social Security.

I don't have a problem with that, but I'm sure a lot of people would rather just hide their money in a cookie jar any more.

I wonder how many people really would like to opt out of paying income tax (that's where the government being up in your koolaid started, according to many die hard government minimalists) Social Security, Medicare, Welfare and Medicaid if given the choice? I'd have to include FICA and all that too, of course.

We had a system completely without "socialistic" safety nets or interference a hundred and twenty years ago without any of the above. I guess you have to ask yourself if that's where you want to be again.

17

Do You Teach Your Kids that They are Sinful, in Need of Redemption?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

teaching christian children they are sinful, worthless and in need of redemption .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urspnqzyll8&feature=related.

do children deserve eternal hell?.

mindmelda

I taught my children it's human to make mistakes and that's how we learn. I also taught them to respect themselves enough to not do self destructive things.

I got a lot of shit from JWs for doing that. I was really supposed to be teaching them to live in dread of the big mean sky god.

Oh, I'm still spiritual, I just think there's enough to be afraid of in the real world without looking for it in the spiritual one.

24

Watchtower 1974- Obviously a Bethelite writes all fat people who eat more than others will be destroyed!!!

by Witness 007 in

bethel lunchtime....their is always a young brother who eats more potatoes or chicken etc.

leaving the plate empty and others from his table scrounging from other "less hungry" tables.

so some writer with a chip on his shoulder writes this article.. watchtower 1974 p.167 "glutton...fails to show love for jehovah.

mindmelda

I hear that they have crummy food at Bethel sometimes. LOL

Well, how are they going to enforce that? Demand that all the fatties go on Weight Watchers or Jenny Craig or else?

The problem of policing people's private activities like eating and sex without seeming like a nosy pervert must be a never ending worry for the GB.

21

Is it just me or do people who think they have some special inside relationship with God come off like self-absorbed lunatics?

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

i mean, i know i'm self-absorbed, however i don't think i have or ever will have some relationship with god that everyone else doesn't likewise have.. .

and geez!

knock off the paragraphs upon paragraphs of blah, blah, blah..."and that's how i know i'm so special.

mindmelda

NO, it's not just you. But, I like to hear people ramble on about what they believe. It tells me a lot about them. Not always informative about anything else, but it is a good way to tell if someone is reasonably sane or not.

16

Are You Still Interested in Looking for Truth?

by cameo-d in

what are our origins?

what has this life all been for?

is there anything after this life?

mindmelda

Q.Where did we come from?

I don't know,where were you born? But for general purposes, Earth is a good answer.

Q.What are our origins?

I have one word for you... Fossils. Yep, we have fossils of all the long dead things we're related to waaaay back. Very interesting, go look. It doesn't answer everything, but it's a decent clue.

Q.Is this life all there is?

None of will really know that until we're dead so it's kind of a paradoxical question. If there's nothing, it won't matter anyway, and if there is, well, there's nothing to worry about, unless you believe that nonsense about hell. Even then...hey, they're bound to have better parties. And big plus...none of those ignorant mean JWs in either place, only the nicer ones who will probably be relieved that they don't have to garden and sing Kingdom Melodies forever. Bonus!

Q. What has this life all been for?

Making more life (if you're into that), enjoying this one, and discussing whether there's an afterlife, learning interesting things, doing interesting things. It's not the goal, it's the journey. Or rather, don't be so focused on the goal that you forget to enjoy the journey.

Q. Can the truth ever be found?

Sorry, that "ultimate truth" thing is not only not possible for humans, (I'll get back to that) it's vastly overrated as a source of contentment.

How can you discover ultimate truth when you're a limited human being? The sum of what you do not know about the universe will always be infinitely greater than what you do not know. That doesn't mean you give up learning and discovering, but that you accept reasonable limitations of being what you are.

Just remember that you're a tiny being on a relatively small ball of dirt and gases that is rotating and revolving around a rather average sun on one of the sparsely populated arms of one of the millions of galaxies in the whole universe and you'll get an idea of your importance in the total scheme things. That's probably why we need to believe that God loves us. I would never say he doesn't, but hey...as a species, we do need to get over ourselves.

Being able to even ask those questions may be the most interesting things about us. Being able to answer them, well, your answers are as good and valid as mine, because we'll probably never know.

I'm guess I'm trying to say it's okay not to know all that because no one does, and if someone tells you that they do, they're trying to sell you something.

16

Are You Still Interested in Looking for Truth?

by cameo-d in

what are our origins?

what has this life all been for?

is there anything after this life?

mindmelda

I find the Bible useful in some ways, but not any more so than any of the other books of other religions. They all were written by people and since people are fundamentally the same in many ways in their thinking, you'll find a lot of the same basic thoughts.

That's probably why I'm a Universalist. When I can learn the same things from all the big religions and philosophies in spite of their obvious differences, I figure it's all coming from the same place.

Inside of us. I found it's better to look inward than outward for spiritual truth, but for information, use an encyclopedia, listen, read and learn all you can about the world around you from everything and everyone that you can.

Show me what a person believes in and it tells me more about them than about God, though. There's your clue. Spirituality comes from humans. That's not a bad thing. It's just an innate part of us that we need not to let run amuck and get scary and harmful.

Oh and we need to quit telling other people how to express something that comes from within themselves. That makes no sense at all. It's like me telling you what your favorite color is. It's a purely subjective thing.

20

Did you feel alone amongst the great crowd of JW's?

by highdose in

jw
friends

like there you were at an assembly maybe, everyone seems to be swarming with freinds, and you are the one left out unwanted and made to feel like you don't belong there?.

mindmelda

No, they were always up in my koolaid. I wanted to be alone, but they kept bugging me. LOL

Oh, but yeah, I felt alone most of the time because I didn't agree with some of it, then a lot of it. I just went out and found people that didn't make me feel that way after a while, though.

I only got close to a few Witnesses over all, but I'm not close to any of them any more. I guess I always had "wordly" friends. Bad me!

108

Tea Partiers Say They Would Absolutely Abolish Social Security

by sammielee24 in

jw
friends

please, please, please let the libertarians, republicans and their offshoot the tea party, run on this issue.

oh my heavens what a joy it would be to line up all the runners and tell half of the americans - the vast majority of those who actually live on their social security, that they want to take it away.

abolish it.

mindmelda

Someone said that socialism is great at the top of the heap. I'd add to that that so is capitalism. Hey, NEARLY EVERYTHING is better at the top of the heap!

Except maybe your tax rate. LOL

Okay, given that socialism is really really bad, why is that most countries now have sort of a blend of both capitalism and socialism? They take the best of both and seem to do fairly well with it.

One reason was just pure desperation. Post WWII Europe was pretty well devastated financially. Unlike America, it did not profit from the war. What was done was done to shore up what resources and money was available as a bastion against total collapse of the whole shebang.

Britain decided as part of that general "welfare" to give the largely impoverished British citizenry free healthcare, or rather, healthcare paid for by their taxes. It's not really "free", ahem. Anyway, when Britain pulled together and got back on it's feet, some people decided maybe they should go back to privately run health care as a primary system. And guess what? The people didn't want to go back to that, at least, most of them didn't.

Is it a case of once you get people used to something government provided (remember, they're paying for it with a bit higher taxes than we pay on average) that it's just easier?

I don't know, but there are a few detractors, and a few years ago they mucked it up with some damned reform that everyone seems to hate. It wasn't broke but they fixed it anyway, something like that. Not saying it's perfect, but it's good enough that the majority want to keep it. That's democracy, the majority rules.

But take the Netherlands, where the taxpayer pays a whopping 51% of their income for taxes. The wealthy classes are squealing at around that rate, what do you think the people of the Netherlands are doing?

Oh, nothing. They love it. Because they get damn near EVERYTHING subsidized, including housing subsidized by the government. Turns out they get a shitload for their 51%. And strangely, private enteprise and business still thrives in the Netherlands. Amazing, isn't it? The government subsidizing all this hasn't killed free enterprise.

You know what you get for that 51%? You get maternity and paternity leave of at least 4 months after a new baby...with pay. You get a free nanny for 6 months. You get your kids school clothing and food and supplies paid for. You get a paid for vacation of a month out of every year...and that is above your normal pay rate...so you can actually go somewhere nice. You get your housing subsidized regardless of salary. Seriously, even the rich can get subsidized housing if they want it...most of them want something more grand, but they can get it. A few do so they can donate more of their wealth to social welfare. Charity is HUGE in the Netherlands...because you can afford it. The average wage earner in the Netherlands actually has more money to spend on amenities, luxuries and entertainment, keeping those enterprises alive. Strangely, good old capitalism gets a boost from this slightly socialist government. Wow, who'd have thought those two could exist together? They do, quite well, in most of Europe.

Oh, if you're unemployed for a while, you still get all that until you can find another job. Even the paid vacation. Honest.

You get medical care that is good enough that all their health stats beat ours by a mile. As for social freedoms, they have all they want. Their is definitely more tolerance of human diversity than there is in America. You know, this place where we always brag about how we accept people of all sorts, land of the free, home of the brave. All that talk. Of course, a place where things like mild recreational drugs, homosexuality and public nudity are tolerated might be some people's idea of hell on earth. Better stay here.

As a friend of mine said after reading what people get in the Netherlands. "If this is socialism, then I'm a fucking socalist!" LOL (Can you say that word here, I forgot to read if you can. If not, just put little mental asterisks between the F and the K, please.)

The Dutch vote for all this, you know. It's not forced on them. They can get other things voted in, but this suits them pretty well.

But, I have friends in The Netherlands, in Switzerland and in Germany and in Finland. If you called any of them a Socialist, well, that'd be an insult. They live in democracies, in their opinion because they vote for what they want. This is what they want.

That IS democracy. Rule by the people. People voting in what they want from their government. If it was a socialist society in the sense that people really mean by that but keep saying socialist; totalitarianism, they'd get what the government told them they were going to get and they'd better shut up and like it.

By the way, I'm not saying European Socialist Democracy would work for the US. Maybe if we're smart, we could come up with something even better. But, we need something better than what we have now, that's for damn sure. And the answer isn't going to be found going back to the perceived "good old days".

Just remember, America "the way it used to be" included outdoor plumbing, legal wife beating, child labor and lynching. Oh, and random epidemics of typhoid, smallpox and yellow fever. Not really that great when you think about it.