Posts by bohm

6

COULD ANYONE SUFFER FROM DEPRESSION.??

by Mr. Majestic in

being in the organisation for most of my life i have seen so many people suffering with depression.

but a friend of mine recently said that it was impossible for them to suffer from the condition, because of the mental strategies they have in place to cope with hard times, and a mental resilience that they attained from a balanced stable upbringing..... .

could it be true that some people have a natural immunity to such a debilitating mental condition....???.

bohm

Hey!

I have suffered from depression for about 1 year and i think i can elaborate:

First off, som say that "everybody are depressed at times" and stuff like that. That is not true. A depression DOES NOT feel like what you and i would call "being depressed", when you are having a depression you sink to such a shit state you loose all normal feelings (yep, that includes the feeling you normally associate with "being depressed", the person who are depressed are aware of this and feel like crap everyday because of it, but wont recognize it as a depression), and you walk around like a zombie. You also go into complete denial. The one person who can never, ever be trusted to diagnose a depression is the person who suffer from it, that is one of the thing that makes this decease so dangerous!.

So what are the symptoms? Well, its actually very easy to diagnose, just google for depression, symptoms, and you can easily find the list of strange ideas that a person suffering from depresion have. if you have many of those for a long time, you got a depression, and you got to see a doctor (a person who has a depression will allways invent all kinds of reasons why seing a doctor is a bad idea. BREAK THEIR LEGS AND DRAG THEM TO THE DOCTOR, SPEAKING AS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS, YOU ARE DOING THEM AN ENORMEOUS FAVOR!). As a rule of thump, if you begin to withdraw from friends and dont feel life is rewarding, and this goes on for a month, have suicidal thought (i reasoned: since i am only having THOUGHT, and dont actually have PLANS to kill myself, im golden. I was wrong :-) ).

Secondly, i think that the notion of "two types of depression, chemical and psychological" has been dropped. A depression is caused by the brain lacking certain chemicals which in result inhibit synapse firering. thats why it cant just be fixed by happy thought much like diabetis wont fix itself. the person suffering from depression wont believe that. see the note about breaking legs. I think i felt that directly, some times i would simply loose my train of thoughts and my ability to focus was so low that i at times LITTERALY could not read because i could not make the letters form words. that one felt kind of strange. I told myself that was due to "stress" :-).

Thirdly, depression is, in most cases, very easy to cure. You get some pills, you take on every morning, the brain gets the chemicals it need and in 6 weeks time you go back to normal. going back to normal from the depressed state was a very, very strange experience.

About jw's not having depression.. thats total bullshit. i know at least one who had one and i dont know many jws. and the thing about praying or being more spiritual, thats the worst advice you can give, since the person who is depressed blame him/herself for EVERYTHING and giving the person an additional reason why everything is his/her fault is not a good approach. secondly, it gives the person another excuse for going to the doctor, which he/she will be very happy for :-) .

(oh, and how did i go to the doctor? well, a friend of mine who had worked with depressed people spend a couple of hours going through the symptoms. i would not have done it on my own).

12

Does the armageddon doctrine make it moral to kill?

by bohm in

hey - this is a semi-serious question i have asked a witness before but did not get a sattisfying answer.. consider bob.

bob is a total psychopat.

the only thing bob really likes to do is to kill people, so thats what he do all day.. next door to bob lives jill.

bohm

Billy: you almost cost me a keyboard :-) .

If bad people are resurrected as fruit... and all the witness in the pictures from paradise walk around with fruit with creepily happy faces, makes you wonder what is going on ;-) .

12

Does the armageddon doctrine make it moral to kill?

by bohm in

hey - this is a semi-serious question i have asked a witness before but did not get a sattisfying answer.. consider bob.

bob is a total psychopat.

the only thing bob really likes to do is to kill people, so thats what he do all day.. next door to bob lives jill.

bohm

Satanus: The thing about the parents state is the most strange thing. Sure, when the killed their children (and hence assured them resurrection in a world with irrefuteable proof for jw teaching and without satan), they would be doing wrong - killing is wrong and that is. so parents: dead. But one may think of a parent who may be depressed or something and thought: "well, i got 9 children, and statistically, 6 of them will leave the WT and have a much reduced hope. But if i kill them now, all 9 are in heaven. So its kind of 4 resurrected against 9 resurrected. They are more valuable than me, so i will do it".

So there is an entirely unselfish argument that may lead the parent to kill the children, a path where the parent completely sacrefice himself. So one may ask: if the parent actually kill the children of completely unselfish reasons, would it then be right for jehova to punish him for doing so, just because he breaks a commandment? (which, by the way, is broken a gazillion times in the bible by jehovahs chosen and clearly dont apply to jehova himself).

12

Does the armageddon doctrine make it moral to kill?

by bohm in

hey - this is a semi-serious question i have asked a witness before but did not get a sattisfying answer.. consider bob.

bob is a total psychopat.

the only thing bob really likes to do is to kill people, so thats what he do all day.. next door to bob lives jill.

bohm

On second thought, i think i should add that i personally dont think its okay to kill or anything.. or that jv's think that. i just think the doctrine about armageddon/judgement/resurrection is self-contradictory...

...OR IS THAT JUST WHAT I WANT YOU TO THINK?

12

Does the armageddon doctrine make it moral to kill?

by bohm in

hey - this is a semi-serious question i have asked a witness before but did not get a sattisfying answer.. consider bob.

bob is a total psychopat.

the only thing bob really likes to do is to kill people, so thats what he do all day.. next door to bob lives jill.

bohm

Hey - this is a semi-serious question i have asked a witness before but did not get a sattisfying answer.

Consider Bob. Bob is a total psychopat. The only thing Bob really likes to do is to kill people, so thats what he do all day.

Next door to Bob lives Jill. One day Jill get a visit from two jehovahs witness. The two witness in questions begin to witness to Jill, but Jill is kind of an atheistic bitch so she tells them to stick the bible where the sun dont shine and beat it, then she let her rotweiler loose and one of the witness, being to full of spritual food to run, is eaten. Obviously Jill dont get return calls and never hear from the witness again.

- now stay with me -

Accoring to (how i understand) WT doctrine, Jill made a real bummer here because even if we cannot, positively, 100% say that Jill is going to get killed at armageddon, telling two witness to stick it and have her rotweiler eat one of them is NOT good. Jill heard the message and didnt respond, thats bad, and i think all witness will agree that Jills spiritual chances are in a shit state. Jills situation is made worse since what she dont know is that armageddon is due next friday.

So thats basically Jills prospects. perhaps 95% chance she is going to get killed next friday, end of story.

Fortunately for Jill, she lives next door to Bob, and on thursday he breaks in and shoot Jill. Now, Jills outlook changed - she is guaranteed to be woken up in the new world for an extra chance, and i think we can safely say, that if we woke up with jesus, moses and all the righous dudes walking around, theres a good chance even a staunch ateist like Jill would listen to what the witness had to say, considering most people alive when she wake up are witness. So what basically happened is that jills prospects got a hell of a lot better because she was killed - from almost certain destrucion, to a chance of being presented with "the truth" backed up by irrefuteable proof and without satan to desieve her.

What about bob? Well who cares, he died at armageddon.

The point here is not that i want to say bob did good in being a psychopatic serial killer - no doubt the bible condemn bob to destruction. But what if bob was so sick he didnt care about dying at armageddon? isnt bob, even though the bible tells us to do whatever we can to stop him, doing us all a favor? Would the most unselfish action a parent could do to his/her child not be to imediately kill it, hence making sure it would grow up in a world full of evidence *for* jv teaching? sure, the parent would condemn himself, but it would not be the childs fault - only he would be punished, and the child, once restored to perfection, would not miss the "evil" parent it never knew anyway, because how could there be longin in a perfect mind in a perfect world? isnt that what the JW's teach?

So i guess my questions is, does the current beliefs about armageddon, judgement and paradise not lead one to conclude that it is really a good thing the world is full of Bobs, hitlers and stalins, since they are helping those who cannot be reached by ordinary witnessing to have a second chance, in a world full of proof and without temptations, even if they in the process loose their hope of everlasting life? What is the "witness way" around this?

My only counter argument is that jehova would see into the heart of jill and condemn her, even if she was receptive to the truth when presented for it with evidence in the new world. But it raise a lot of questions - if jehova sees into the hearths of people and judge them thus, why care about preaching? is it not then only a way to proove the witness who preach worthy and ... isnt that kind of bonkers when you think of it?

44

The most absurd comments yet about oral sex !!!

by Sour Grapes in

i visited a kh today with my wife and the brother who gave the public talk.

said that there is so much unnatural use of the sex organs by the world's.

youth, that the medical field is encouraging all parents with children 12 years.

bohm

Hm. So let me get this straight. On one hand, you can preach, pioneer, attend meetings, conventions and read a gazillion pages in the wt and awake and the, finally, after years of hardship, loss and suffering armageddon come and you wake up in earth 2.0 and can begin to dig graves.

OR you can opt for plenty of oral sex untill you quickly croak from cancer only to be resurrected in paradise anyway.

hmm. tough call....

21

Hubby's Doubts...

by cognac in

well, after reading mr. flippers thread yesturday about stephen hassan, i decided i would like to talk to hubby about cults in general to see what would happen.

i knew we couldn't go to this site because his walls would go up.

http://www.geocities.com/rick_g22/cults/cults1b.html.

bohm

http://www.spiritwatch.org/ is quite good. Perhaps it would be a good idea to begin by talking over the WTs own litterature? they printed an article in 1994, the most interesting part of it is that it does not provide proper definitions for cult or mind control, but still ask the reader to deside if he/she is subjected to it. You can see it being picked apart here: http://www.spiritwatch.org/jwcult.htm .

I think it would be quite interesting to gather quotes/images from WT litterature that fits in with the BITE model or the 8 criteria for thought reform...

4

WHO DO YOU HINK WAS MOST MORAL OR IMMORAL PRESIDENT OF THE WT

by badboy in

jw
friends

any takers?.

bohm

the prize for most evil goes to.... judge rutherford!.

he transformed russells organization completely, starting by plotting a coup to give him power before russell was dead in the grave. Knorr may have been the guy who made it into an effective machine, thereby affecting more with the dangerous teachings, but all the bad stuff can be traced back to or began with rutherford.

Actually it sounds like Russell was kind of a nice guy :-) .

My girl is at the convention in Hamburg, Germany.

by bohm in

jw
friends

hey people.. before my girlfriend met me, she was asked by a bunch of her friends to go with them to the convention in hamburg.

its pretty tough on her, being locked up with 26999 jv's to the big barbeque of spiritual food, and all day is about the end of the world plus people from her congregation is giving her a hell of a time for her recent choices in beliefs and men.. the past day she have been quite sad.. now i regret not taking some time of to go with her so i could hold her hand, try to make her phone in ill or just sing christmas carols or whatever demonic tricks it takes to scare away people from her congregation who give her a hard time :-), so i wanted to ask if anyone here are going, have something special to add about what is going on/being said (new tric..

light?

bohm

Hey people.. Before my girlfriend met me, she was asked by a bunch of her friends to go with them to the convention in Hamburg. Its pretty tough on her, being locked up with 26999 jv's to the big barbeque of spiritual food, and all day is about the end of the world PLUS people from her congregation is giving her a hell of a time for her recent choices in beliefs and men.. the past day she have been quite sad.

Now i regret not taking some time of to go with her so i could hold her hand, try to make her phone in ill or just sing christmas carols or whatever demonic tricks it takes to scare away people from her congregation who give her a hard time :-), so i wanted to ask if anyone here are going, have something special to add about what is going on/being said (new tric.. light?), and i would especially gratefull if anybody knew about recordings, notes, etc. that was floating around on the net - i told her to take notes if there was anything she wanted us to talk about later, but i feel it would be better if i had a fuller picture about what was happening ... and quite frankly, i am scared for what is going on and want to know as much as i can!

Sincerely!

ps.

i feel for all you guys who ever had to sit through a convention! it sound mind-and-but numbing booring to the extremes!

8

Feedback for my next Freeminds article on how to use my Tough Questions Series....

by Tuesday in

these are only portions of blood, even when combined they do not make up full blood.

if when blood is separated its no longer considered blood, then why dont you accept blood transfusions in general?

bohm

Hey - very very nice. I have bookmarked it.

I think the way i would go was to begin by talking how jw's decide on their rules. basically make them say something to the effect of: "our rules are dictated by the bible not man" (best to do this before the question of blood is raised). Then, as i go along in the argument, to each of the counter-points ask: "and what scripture or scriptual princip does one use when desiding that? (for example, what is the basis for desiding what fractions of blood are actual fractions and not 'whole blood', and what is the scriptual basis for desiding that using a gazillion units of blood to derive a (approved!) treatment is a way to show respect)", then go on with the actual counter argument...