Posts by garyneal

74

I need answers to so MANY questions.....

by Confuzzled in

jw
friends

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garyneal

Confuzzled,

Check out my you tube channel and view my list of favorites, I linked the entire movie "Witnesses of Jehovah" on there (all seven parts). It is an old movie, but still very accurate. Also check out my you tube subscriptions.

Gary

74

I need answers to so MANY questions.....

by Confuzzled in

jw
friends

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garyneal

Hello, and welcome to the board,

As I read your post, you sound a lot like me when I met my JW wife back in 2002. I knew very little about them back then and the web did not have as much information as it does now. Not that I was looking, at least not in 2002. Personally, if I had known then what I know now, I doubt I would be married to her today. Not that our marraige has been bad, in fact, we've had a pretty good marraige in spite of our problems with most of them not really related to the religion. In fact, her JW parents and the elder at the Kingdom Hall she attends were very helpful and nice to us over the years. I just think that if I even had a clue about some of the things they taught concerning 1914, the fact that they think only they have the truth, and that all other churches are influenced by Satan, I think our relationship would not have lasted the questioning I am giving her now.

Personally, I think you would be better off setting him free and looking for someone else who beliefs are closer to your own. However, I've been with someone who I really loved (or so I thought) in spite of her abrasiveness towards me and what I believed. This, even though I was very tolerant of her beliefs while I disagreed with them. I'm not speaking of my wife in this instance but another woman who I met in the spring of 1999 and almost married during the summer. She was Catholic (in name only) and dabbled in the occult. My wife, in contrast, was a very warm, sincere individual who had a love for God and the Bible. Frankly, I felt as if I had found the woman of my dreams (and I still do though our love has been tempered). So in some way, I can understand why you may feel like you really want to work it out with this man. Though I still think it will be better if you didn't for reasons that I am about to illustrate.

Shortly after my wife and I moved in together and just before she and I married, I took her to a church that I was thinking of attending. I recall her looking at the windows of it where it had the glass images of Jesus and saying, "My mom said that these things were idols." When I asked how so? She said that people in churches worship these images. (UM, NO WE DON'T!) I tried to explain to her nicely how we do no such thing but she would not comprehend. Then the holidays came, she had been celebrating them with me before we move in together and got married. However, I would remember every year her saying that, "God is going to kill me!" I would ask her why and she would say, "Because I am doing something he hates, I am enjoying Christmas." To say how dumbfounded I was was an understatement. I mean, I knew Jehovah's Witnesses did not celebrate the holidays but I did not know that they took such a morbid attitude about celebrating them. I just thought they were like a friend of mine who was a witness at the time I met my wife (she's out of it now ) and that she would just give gifts to her son but call them friendship gifts and not put up a tree or hang decorations.

I was taught for many years prior to getting involved with my JW wife that the religion is false and, depending on who was telling me about them, they were a cult. However, I wanted to find out for myself so I agreed to have "Bible study" sessions with them from 2003 to about 2007. They seemed like they really knew their Bible and they were able to answer so many of my questions "from the Bible." Still, though, I knew something wasn't quite right because the broad generalizations that they made of Christendom's churches just did not seem to fit my personal experiences with the Christian community. Plus there were a few things that they taught that did not seem to make since. Their 1914 teaching was one in particular that I could not seem to accept because I was always taught that Jesus said that no one would know the day of his coming, except the Father alone. Still though, I did not give much thought to the religion and was actually beginning to accept some of their theology. It was okay because I was taking part in things she thought highly of and she was taking part in things I thought highly of (holiday celebrations). She was even attending church with me.

Fast forward to today, after my wife threw a big birthday party for our daughter, she decided that she no longer wanted to celebrate the holidays and birthdays anymore. It gave her no pleasure anymore so she felt like it was no longer worth it. Plus she wanted to rid herself of the guilt and wanted to 'get back in God's good graces.' At the same time, she also decided that she no longer wanted to attend church with me, saying that she was tired of being confused and wanted to just stick with what she felt was the truth. I felt like a part of me died when she made that choice and I began to wonder if she did indeed have the truth, and if she did, I was going to die. To say I was depressed was an understatement, I remember crying in the bathroom at work because I was torn between the life I was satisfied with and wanting to know if indeed I understood what the true religion really was. I remember telling my wife that perhaps she was right and maybe I too should become a JW. They certainly know how to present their religion as a true religion, they've done their homework when it came to how to counter questions from Christians in general and show Bible verses to back up their claims.

However, after a deep prayer with God and a reading of the Bible, I began to see that something wasn't right. You asked about the 144,000, so did I and when I read it in the Bible alone, I could not make the connection with the 144,000 JEWS in the Bible with the 144,000 "annointed Christians" that the Watchtower speaks about. Upon further research, I learned that the 144,000 could either be taken wholly figurative or wholly literal. The Watchtower takes the number literally and the people figuratively (spiritual Israel a.k.a. JW's) which is an error. Even though the witnesses believe they are the only true Christians (which is also not true), if they applied the wholly figurative interpretation of the 144,000 to themselves, then all witnesses would be partaking at the memorials. This is currently not the case as they interpret the scripture errorneously.

Some other things you may want to consider if you decide to continue in a relationship with this man.

Their blood doctrine in wrong, murderous, and very hypocritical. See my post concerning the blood doctrine debate I had with my wife. Your potential husband will consider himself the head of the household. If heaven forbid something should happen to one of your children that will require a blood transfusion, he will insist that your child does not take any blood. EVEN IF YOUR CHILD DIES AS A RESULT. He may say that he will respect your wishes, but he will be under pressure from the Society to CONFORM to their teachings.

As others may have pointed out (or not), he will insist that as the head that your children should be required to go to all Kingdom Hall meetings. While my wife allows (and even encourages) my daughter to participate in sports, I have a strong suspicion that once she makes her "goal" to become baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the spirit directed organization, (see this also) she will probably come under pressure to bring my daughter to more meetings and sacrifice her extra-currcular activities.

He will also want to read books that discourage participating in holidays with your children. These books also teach the children about Armaghedon and teach that all non-witnesses (a.k.a. you) will not survive it into the new system.

And he will probably dismiss all of your own beliefs and questioning as your personal opinions and may even label them in a negative way.

In short, he may be a wonderful man. I can certainly say that my wife is wonderful. But I would seriously heed that scripture concerning becoming unevenly yoked.

18

Lazy Ass Dubs

by Farkel in

i noticed a recent comment the other day on a piece i wrote several years back on rutherford and al capone.

it was posted here first, but it is now on another (actually several) websites.

the (obviously) dub writer was upset that i didn't present links and "verifiable" references to prove my statement that grudge rutherford had two 16 cylinder cadillac automobiles, among some other things i stated.

garyneal

Yeah, I would have to agree that the witnesses are a bit too lazy to do real research on things and are too scared of the truth and/or can't handle it. Better to keep their neat package theology intact and keep feeding on the 'spiritual manna' from 'heaven' as it is being channeled through the watchtower society and dispensed for witnesses consumption.

50

How Much of an Impact is Being Made by Young JW' s Leaving the Cult ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

we have read threads where statistics show that 2 out of every 3 people raised as jehovah's witnesses eventually leave once they get in their 20's to 30's and out on their own.

my children and my nieces and nephews are between the ages of 21 to 35 .

out of those 8 people - 4 of them have completely stopped attending meetings .

garyneal

I can only speak for the dubs that I know since I was never one myself and neither was any of my family. Well, my mom has cousins who are witnesses but I don't really know them at all.

My wife and her sister were raised as dubs along with their cousin who is about their age. Their cousin is baptized, my wife wants to be baptized, and her sister is living 'like the world' drinking, smoking, etc..

I also have some friends who were dubs not by choice. In one family, the mom was baptist and the dad converted to the witnesses. It cause strife in the marraige and they later divorced. All of the kids are now 'unbelievers.' Another old friend has a mom in the cult and she too is an 'unbeliever.'

So, so far, more young one leaving the 'truth' than sticking with it.

28

Was there a recent KM that said WT is more important than the Bible?

by Saoirse in

someone told me that there was a kingdom ministry within the last 2 years that said something along the lines of "jws should follow what the wt or fds says and not the bible".

is that true?

and if so, could someone point me to a copy of it?

garyneal

Modern day Bereans carefully check their Watchtowers to verify anything a new CO or Presiding Elder tells them.

Or as my mother-in-law says, "I DO research! I always look up the scriptures quoted in the Watchtower."

Yeah, I had a feeling that would be the witness response.

28

Was there a recent KM that said WT is more important than the Bible?

by Saoirse in

someone told me that there was a kingdom ministry within the last 2 years that said something along the lines of "jws should follow what the wt or fds says and not the bible".

is that true?

and if so, could someone point me to a copy of it?

garyneal

I remember reading that section. Makes me wonder how the WT regards the Bereans?

36

This is a perfect religion!

by life is to short in

jw
friends

this is perfect religion with imperfect people.

the elders are imperfect that is why there are problems.

we just need to endure because jehovah is allowing this as a test to see if we will still love him.

garyneal

This is perfect religion with imperfect people. The elders are imperfect that is why there are problems.

And how is this different from any other Bible believing church? If the teachings of the Bible are perfect, and Jesus Himself is perfect, and the truth can be found by studying and applying the principles contained in the Bible, but the interpretations and teachings have to come from imperfect men, how can the Jehovah's Witnesses be any closer to the truth than any other Bible based religion?

See why I don't believe that these people have a monopoly on the truth? That is, if they have it at all.

32

Living With Regret - what do YOU regret about being in the org?

by babygirl30 in

jw
friends

1. getting baptized at 14 and not knowing what the heck i was 'signing' up for.

2. dating worthless, lazy, no work ethic, selfish 'brothers' who were supposedly approved all because they were baptized - but in the end - were a waste of my time and younger years in dating.. 3. subjecting my bf (back in the day) who was a non-jw to the whole jw experience!

i demanded that he study, i demanded that he change his religion in order to be with me, i made him sit with my parents and listened to them berate him (and myself) while they fed him all their haughty beliefs and requirements in order to date their jw daughter.

garyneal

Blondie, oh my goodness! My heart goes out to you for the childhood that you had to endure.

Well, I was never a witness but I am married to one (currently an unbaptized publisher). I think my regrets that I am having to come to terms with are as follows:

Knowing that no matter how much I study the Bible and exhibit a Christlike attitude, she will never fully accept me as a 'true' Christian because some of my beliefs (that she labels 'Gary-isms') contradict the WT.

Knowing that the more immersed she becomes in the 'truth' the less and less I will ever be able to share with her the things that are important to me (like Christmas, and Birthday celebrations, New Years Eve Parties, etc.).

The fact that she will not be thankful if I want to do something nice for her on her birthday or mother's day. ("Why can't you do something nice for me all year round?" she will ask.)

The idea that she may never attend church with me, even though I still on occasions attend meetings with her. If she does attend, I will have to listen to her criticize how my church does things. (Back before I knew what I knew about the WT, this type of criticism would actually have me doubt my own faith and make me feel like maybe the witnesses were indeed onto something. At least now I have ammunition to fire back even though she does not trust the 'apostate' sources.)

The fact that my daughter could grow up confused and scared due to the Watchtower's strong stance on how they believe that only the witnesses will survive armageddon. I doubt I will ever find myself attending another dogmatic, legalistic church like I did in my early 20s (even if I were to agree with most of their teachings) because I don't want to add 'double confusion and anxiety' to my daughter's mind. Better for me and especially for her to attend a more seeker sensitive church that at least tries to follow the Bible as closely as possible but also sticks closer to Christ's simple teachings than preach hell-fire all of the time.

17

Sister "Elly" vanishes

by MinisterAmos in

jw
friends

my daughter is 18 and goes to meetings from time-to-time basically to mess with the dubs (she always wears mini-skirts) and keep up on gossip....she actually filled me in on this but i find it amusing.. sister "elly" (we'll just call her that) the buxom vixen of our spanish congo suddenly stopped showing up to meetings.

my curiosity became aroused when not one single person asked her mom about her!.

her mom and step-dad are super-dubs, the kind who take it personally if a child draws pictures during the meeting rather than sit ram-rod straight, if a bro uses the john more than once, or if a sister "forgets" her hose.

garyneal

Interesting, reminds me of the time my JW wife and I met. Her parents and some of her friends began searching for j-dub who would make a suitable boyfriend for her in hopes that she will ditch me. To think, all the time before we met, she was looking for a suitable j-dub guy to be her boyfriend but all of the j-dub brothers who are around her age would not take her seriously.

Makes me wonder though, if the witnesses find it so important that witnesses should only marry other witnesses, why do they make it so hard for witnesses to date and find one another? I understand that in some congos, there are very few young single people in it. The few that are there are 'forced' to look to the worldly people for their potential mates. Why not have a Jehovah's Witnesses youths assembly, similar to how some churches do youth conferences?

From what my wife would tell me, witnesses who end up engaged just announce it seemingly out of the blue. In that, I mean, that prior to the announcement, most members of the cong don't even know they were even dating, let alone getting close enough to become engaged.

25

Confusion

by tryingtoexit in

jw
friends

okay so i'm very very very close to presenting all my evidence for why i no longer want to be a jw to my parents and my wife.

we will be together just the 4 of us during the christmas season as we have that time off.

i've gathered enough information in the past 12/13 months to do this, 607/1914, birthdays, faithful & discreet slave, cult mind control/fear, false prophecies, preaching, etc.. but one thing i am still unsure of or have trouble understanding/explaining is the true answer to some things in revelation.. i know many chrisitans believe they are going to heaven, but in my "deprogramming stages" i cant figure out:.

garyneal

Sylvia,

Interesting thread about blacks and shunning. It now makes sense why my wife has never seen the shunning practice first hand because she is black and most of the people she associates with are black also. My wife's family also loves to do get togethers and it is one of the things she misses most when we moved 250 to 300 miles away from them.

It took me a few months to get over leaving my family behind too but I guess it is true about us white folks and not being so close to family. My side of the family rarely spends time together, save for Christmas. That, by the way, is one of the reasons why Christmas is so important to me. In spite of the fact that my wife and I try to schedule family reunions for both sides of our family, it is tough getting people on my side to commit (though many do). It is also getting tough for us because no one wants to help with the planning and the expenses.

If next year's reunion turns out like this year's, I don't forsee us doing another one.