Posts by Awen

6

The Trinity, judgement day and the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses...

by Chalam in

hi jwners,.

i was just watching a program with steve hill and he touched on the issue judgement day and the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses.

now the bible says we will all face judgement one day.

Awen

You referenced Deuteronomy which was speaking about the Law given to Israel at Sinai by YHWH thru Moses. This rule was set forth so that no one could be accused unjustly of a crime and convicted of it. This rule was for the proper administration of justice thru an earthly system dispensed by humans who aren't all knowing or who do not have angelical agents watching everyone all the time. There's nothing in Deuteronomy to suggest that they were speaking about anything other than what is mentioned.

Judgement Day as you mentioned is presided over by Jesus and he can use the information gathered by angelic servants to pronounce happy or condemned whomever is being judged.

The truth or falsehood of the Trinity is irrelevant as is the words of Steve Hill. He's taken two completely unrelated items and transposed his own ideas of what could be in the future and completely ignored the contextual useage of the two scriptures.

28

The annointed/elect AND holy spirit

by EndofMysteries in

later i can post tons of scriptures to reference, but no point if nobody has run into this.

have you seen what appears to be 2 different groups of annointed?

perhaps one selected/predestined by jehovah and another not predestined by invited by jesus?

Awen

I hate it when I don't get all the post to post.

Continued:

witnesses still in or who have come out and everyone else.

Intuitive knowledge, reading scriptures and getting an entirely different take on things.

For instance there was Questions from readers that asked if people would marry in the new system. The WT said no because Jesus had said "neither are they married nor given in marriage, but are like the angels in heaven, being neither male nor female". The WTS applied this to the Great Crowd, which seemed silly to me, when you figure it went against God's original purpose for mankind that we fill the earth and subdue it. Also give mankind's natural tendency to seek out a mate. Obviously Jesus was speaking of the 144k and not the GC.

The disgusting thing standing in a holy place referrred to in Revelation seemd to be some aspect of the Organization, perhaps the GB as it exists today. The prophecies of Jeremiah all point towards the disciplining of God's OWN people and not outside religions. If the JW's are indeed God's true people and they have gone awry (as the Israelites did so many times) then the prophecies of discipline MUST be applied towards them alone. Not upon Christendom who as a whole do not claim to be the only true religion.

I do belive the Org will fall and most JW's will be left in darkness and then the sons of God will shine as bright as the sun when they arise and "preach this good news of the kingdom", after this is done, the Great Tribulation begins.

28

The annointed/elect AND holy spirit

by EndofMysteries in

later i can post tons of scriptures to reference, but no point if nobody has run into this.

have you seen what appears to be 2 different groups of annointed?

perhaps one selected/predestined by jehovah and another not predestined by invited by jesus?

Awen

This is my opinion only based upon my own understanding of the scriptures. No offense meant to anyone, nor am i attempting to teach anyone or interpret prophecy.

Jesus said "he that wants to be first, must be last". The anointed, like Jesus are not to be ministered to, but to be ministers to others. This flies in the face of how the GB is treated and viewed by rank and file JW's. There is no evidence (that I am aware of) that only JW's are of the anointed. YHWH decides who gets the Holy Spirit. We can debate about it all day long and it will only cause frustration.

How do you know you are anointed?

This is how it was for me:

I was around 27 years old, had been baptized 8 years by that time. I had the earthly hope (and I still do). I can recall when it happened. I woke up one day and did my Daily Text and when I read it, a thought or something like an inaudible whisper filled my mind as to what it really meant, vs the WTS interpretation. Same thing at the WT study and different meetings. I would have conversations with people and get impressions of what was really being said, without any extra audible words being spoken. One might say I can read body language quite well or that I'm very intuitive. It was way more than that. I sought psychiatric help and explained everything. The Doctor waho was a Christian suggested that it could be my own subconscious trying to break against WT dogma or even the Holy Spirit as Jesus did say he would give it to anyone who asked for it, which I had often prayed for. When the Memorial came around I became nervous, panicky even. I didn't have the heavenly hope, didn't wanna go to heaven. I wanted/want a family and everything that goes with it. I figured God would let me have the choice. Then I read the Apostle paul's words about having a thorn in his side and asking for it's removal (and not getting it) also Jesus' prayer in the garden of Gethesmane about letting "this cup pass away if it was God's will" but then submitting to God's will after all.

This impressed upon me the importance of having faith and more importantly trust in God. He can see long distance, how things will work out in the future if people follow his will and I recognized that I often didn't know what was best for me.

I spoke to several Elders who all encouraged me not to partake mostly because of my age and the fact that I had been a JW for so short a time, and compared my service record to more "worthy ones" in the congregation.

By chance I ran into an anointed Brother in Chester, SC. I walked 8 miles to that meeting because I couldn't get a ride from my non-believing family. I was on vacation there visiting relatives, but very strongly felt I needed to be at that meeting that particular night. The KH was/is located in the worst part of town and no JW's ever venture out in FS after 4PM for obvious reasons (crime). There I met a Brother who claimed to be of the anointed who was only 45 years old! This was in 1997 a few weeks before the memorial. His showed me from the scriptures that there was no age requirement and that if a person was indeed found to be mistaken, YHWH would certainly look at the person's heart and what motivated him/her to accept what was given.

I realized that I really had no choice in the matter. I also thought of the parable of the ten minas, with the one slave burying his treasure in the field and the outcome after that. I also thought of Jonah who ran away from his responsibilities and the outcome to that.

Personally this whole business scares the crap out of me. The huge responsibility one has towards others, especially the WTBTS and wit

22

If You Could Shoot Hitler......

by metatron in

jw
friends

it's a classic sci-fi plot: you have a time machine and a snipers rifle.

do you go back in time and kill hitler?.

i can justify hitler but only because we now can see how central he was to events in europe.

Awen

I wouldn't shoot Hitler because of all the other people who wouldn't now exist because of his actions.

Let's say he died at my hands and the war ended prematurely. So my Grandfather didn't die and later on had kids with my grandmother, who didn't remarry because her husband was alive. There would be children born between this man and woman who weren't born thru the seed of the man my GM did marry and not the man who didn't die (my GF).

Multiply this by the numbers of married men who died in WW2. Then consider the ones who went to the pacific theater to fight once the war in europe was over. Then you have people who may have died then, who may not have done so originally or they ended being divorced by their spouses because of shellshock (PTSD) which they wouldn't have gotten if they had not also fought in the pacific or had not died.

Then consider that the war in Japan may have ended quicker because of more manpower, and no nuclear weapons would have been developed or employed against Japan.

So in essence you may actually cause the non-birth or creating different offspring altogether of many thousands or millions of people by killing this man.

Now who is the criminal?

63

The Elder Bag. Going the way of the Dodo?

by Open mind in

jw
friends

another time & place.

20-25 years ago in a conservative "god's country" us state.

a look around the kingdom hall could easily identify the theocratic pecking order.. .

Awen

All Time-Jeff mentioned Stoops. I believe this is what you are looking for.

http://www.stoopsmfg.com/

39

Did You WANT To Talk To Disfellowshipped People?

by minimus in

jw
friends

did you at least want to say "hi"?

or did you avoid them like the plague?.

Awen

I would smile and say hello, but that was all. I didn't agree with the policy though, I felt it was very un-Christ-like and since it was written by an Apostle and not Jesus, I questioned it's validity.

I recall a local Elder who had a son who was disfellowshipped (again a few years later) and he spoke to him. When I asked the Elder about it, he said that he wasn't about to cut his son off, no matter what the WTS said. If they wanted to take his position away, that was fine by him, he couldn't get another son.

It was something that stuck with my for a long time and caused me to change my mind. Love should be the overruling factor in how we deal with others. Jesus showed in his parables about doing works on the sabbath that if a life was involved, the laws could be bent or even broken as life is more important than a rule.

Years later after I was DFed and treated the same way I went to the memorial and met another DFed person. I stopped and spoke with them at length and gave them encouragement and reassured them that although the WTS might have them in an unapproved state, YHWH didn't see things the same way as men. I was later counseled by an Elder for doing so, to which I replied "Whatcha gonna do? Disfellowship a person who is already disfellowshipped?" I told him I disagreed with the Society's view on the matter and if he didn't like it, then it was too bad.

Jesus was ridiculed for speaking with sinners and tax collectors, to which he replied "those who are not ill do not need a doctor, but those are, do."

30

as a JW were you comfortable with this question?

by highdose in

a few times in the ministry i would find someone clued in who would ask the jw on their doorstep " so what your saying is, unless i join your religon god will kill me?

and everyone else who isn't part of your religon?

" now theres only one answer to that question as far as jw's are concerned but i never saw a single one answer that with a straight answer, mostly i suspect because they were so uncomfortable about being made to face the truth about their beliefs..

Awen

I oftentimes referred people to Exodus 12:38 where it says " a vast mixed-company of non-israelites went with them, along with herds and livestock" then I used logic to show that these people were saved along with the Israelites because of their FAITH and their works showed their FAITH. These people were EGYPTIANS, not ISRAELITES. Having a particular label meant nothing to YHWH as later on the Sons of Korah stood with Moses and were saved, whereas Korah himself was swallowed up by an earthquake for defying YHWH. -Numbers:16

Often when Elders tried to correct me on this matter, I would point to this scripture as proof that the WTS was in error on this matter. YHWH reads hearts, whereas the WTS looks at the outer person.

13

Just my thoughts on the WT Jan 15 2010... Bah humbug

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

just having a practice at copy n paste etc!.

notes on jan 15 2010 wt study articles entitled: why dedicate yourself to jehovah?

and belonging to jehovah - an undeserved kindness.. .

Awen

All this contradictory drivel just points to one thing. THE GB does NOT receive guidance from the Holy Spirit. They are like someone in court giving testimony about what they saw, but who keeps changing their story. Eventually those listening will call their credibility into question and those who aren't really listening will believe everything that is said.

42

What did you look like as a JW?

by highdose in

jw
friends

i was going through some old photos today, i found one of myself when i was a devout jw.

it was really shocking!

i'm so thin, my cheeks are hollow, i'm as white as the wall behind me, i'm standing hunched over, and in my eyes you can see real misery.

Awen

Salvation Army or Good Will suits that were 3-4 years out of style. Starched and pressed shirts with brilliantly multicolored ties, tic tacks. My belt and shoes always matched, had holes in my socks. Shoes were cheap rubber soled ones from WalMart (good for long distance walking) and slightly grey hair, which is almost pure white now at 40 yrs of age.

Always carried a well-worn leather bag, with handles or without, one for FS, one for meetings.

I look about the same. Same weight, 205 lbs, same height 6'00" same tanned complexion (as I live in Myrtle Beach, SC still), brown eyes. Scottish/Choctaw Indian ancestry.

Dress a lil better. I look like a GAP advertisement now, rarely wear a suit anymore.

35

How do I help my kids not buy into the JW thing?

by Judc in

jw
friends

first a little bit about myself.

i'm not a jw.

but i'm married to a jw lady who is very dedicated to it all.

Awen

Go to a few meetings, especially the Sunday meetings, see how the other parents treat their children who cannot sit still. They usually take them in the back and beat the crap out of them and this meets with approval by the Watchtower Society (WTS). Notice how in the Watchtower study people simply repeat what is in the paragraph when answering questions and they may cite the scriptures that are cited in the magazines. No free thought allowed here, no quoting of scriptures not already cited by the WTS as they may not quite agree with the thought being expressed in the magazine or they may in fact completely contradict it. If you are approached and asked if you want a Bible study, DO NOT ACCEPT IT, because if you do, the Elders will start interfering in your family's life, telling you how to be a "proper" husband if you want God's approval. They will start dropping by unexpectedly and "checking in on you" which is in reality a fishing expedition to see if you have nibbled at their WTS bait or are on the "hook" yet and can be reeled in.

Remind your wife that your are the parent of YOUR children too and YOU have a right, GIVEN BY GOD, to train them the way you see fit. Make sure you exercise that right. Remind her that according to JW's, wives are to be in submission to their husbands. Unfortunately, in recent years the WTS has put out information that tells wives with unbelieving husbands that they can and should ignore whatever the husband says if it endangers the child's "spiritual welfare". This will cause conflicts obviously. Expect it, prepare for it.

Spend as much time with your children away from WTS stuff, encourage them to be open with you. Never denegrate your wife or her beliefs, simply let them decide. They may decide in favor of JW's or they may not. At least give them the choice. It's all anyone of us can do. If you try to force it, they could rebel against you and the Witnesses in the congregation with support their actions. There are far many more witnesses than there are of you. You're outnumbered, but you can prevail. It takes time, patience and above all Love.