Posts by JCanon

19

Losing Salvation

by ClassAvenger in

i witnessed to a jw and he accepted that salvation comes through faith only, and the works come later showing that you are a saved person.

but he continiously argues that salvation can be lost according to our behavior.

what do you all say about this?

JCanon

If Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, salvation is the free gift the Bible says it is. Nothing you can do makes you worthy of it because we are all still sinners. The ransom covers over our sins, not our deeds.

This is not correct and the topic is a little complex. But if you just step back to the basics I think you can understand how God looks at it. And that is, what if Adam had children before he sinned? Then what? There would be no need for the ransom sacrifice or any of that.

But...still, would God have just granted anybody life no matter what they did? Or were there requirements?

Thus basically, all that Christ's sacrifice did was remove what was inherited by Adam, but it doesn't wipe out personal choice, say to join Satan or rebel against God, which would result in loss of the prize of eternal life.

But distinguishing how much the influence of outside factors, such as Satan and the imperfect world and our imperfect nature has is the task of "JUDGMENT DAY". All those factors will be considered and then a judgment made if a person would have qualified for life or not.

So when considering salvation one must include the many other references in scriptures that show that some "unrighteous" people will be destroyed, or that even what one speaks will be held accountable to them on judgment day.

Christ's ransom sacrifice just gives man the right to get back in the game on an even playing field, it doesn't give permission to sin without punishment. Adam was perfect and still got the death penalty. Christ didn't die for "willful" sinners.

JCanon

7

The Star, God's Plan or Malicious Plot of Satan?

by ignorance is strength in

i'm not talking about stars in general; such a subject about stars in general would be ridiculous.

i'm specifically talking about the star that the three magi saw that led them to jesus.

the wt holds that this was a malicious plot of satan's to bring jesus to herod.

JCanon

Interesting observation. I won't elaborate (believe it or not!!) but I think it was another miracle from God. But some background on this in the greater context is that these were Jews expecting the Messiah who were astronomers in Babylon. Remember that all the greatest "wise men" in Babylon were the Jews; the Jews have long been the intellectuals even in ancient times.

But I also think the account was recorded to help us to understand the placement of Jews in the astronomical setting in Babylon. It might not seem even remotely connected to you, but the double-dating in the VAT4956 and the SK400 is "Jewish" in style. That is, their style of writing and having double meanings for many things so that outsiders hear and understand one thing but they are conveying something specific and secretive to someone else (including Jesus). All that to say that at the time when the Persians were destroying all the astronomical records of Babylon and then creating new fake ones, it might have been thought that the original chronology was threatened and couldn't be recovered, so they hid the references in "pro-conspiracy" texts called "diaries" which included numerous references of the revised chronology which was just a front to hide a few secret references to the original chronology. It was rather ingenius. But WHO would have wanted to do that? If Jews were employed as astronomers in a great percentage at Babylon, they certainly would have considered doing this.

So I think the reference is there perhaps to focus on what would happen today as far as the Biblical chronology related to astronomical texts. It's a passage that sort of establishes the Jews in the astronomical setting at Babylon and that the "stars" or astronomy would be connected with Jesus at the second coming as well.

Now I know that's FAR FETCHED to you, perhaps, but it is related somewhat to this; and thus I believe God did provide the star and had this recorded to set the setting for astronomical manipulation or information as part of the Messianic scenario specifically or in general.

The Bible does say there would be "signs in the stars and sun and moon" someplace doesn't it too? Astrological phenomena, therefore, is not ruled out as indicating Biblical events in the timetable.

JCanon

5

Counter Witnessing

by Yerusalyim in

.

has anyone here ever followed around jw's out in service and followed them up to doors and warned householders about the religion as the dubs were trying to make their presentation?.

i might do this once to see what happens.

JCanon

Has anyone here ever followed around JW's out in service and followed them up to doors and warned householders about the religion as the Dubs were trying to make their presentation?
I might do this once to see what happens.

Oh, that's a GREAT idea. It's been done. The witnesses are trained to leave if there is any kind of confrontation like that. But this gives me ideas! If I were going to do it, I'd hand out my leaflets AHEAD of them, then the people could ask them questions and give them the leaflet. Of course, the real target would not be the people in the neighborhood but the publishers themselves since if you handed them the leaflet directly they would just throw it away. If someone in the field gives it to them, they have to check it out and report it and read it and maybe try to give some feedback. I did something similar long ago when I was sending out information to the congregation. I would mail it to the literature servant knowing full well he wouldn't know what it was and then pass it on to the elders who would probably at first shrug it off as just apostate stuff until he got into it and discovered there was a legitimate complaint. But the thing is, the witnesses are sooo wrapped up in the WTS and so not used to doing their own research and all, you'd just produce a confused witness. I'd prefer them staying put for now than floundering about. I think for them it's a matter of knowing that some things are wrong but really having no place "better" to go, so they stay by default. Still, it is a juicy idea. It wouldn't cost much to make up a few hundred foldover fliers with lots of information on it, even a half sheet. Hmmmm.... Thanks for the idea. I'll report back if I do something like that. But again, most people let their ministers do their thinking for them and can't think for themselves so it's almost a waste, even if they KNOW something is wrong, they won't act without the WTS telling them so. Anybody close to thinking on their own probably have long left by now. JCanon

43

Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 3

by hooberus in

i will be posting some more "troublesome trinity" verses shortly.

i am trying to concentrate on the verses used by non-trinitarians to "disprove" the trinity.

"mighty god" is jehovah in isaiah 10:21, jeremiah 32:18 etc.

JCanon

The Son is the Son, as you state, but he IS a one-off.
What does creation have to do with THAT relationship?
Please feel free to supply all the diagrams you want, because the moment you attempt to draw Him, you've become an idol worshipper.

A "son" is related to but comes AFTER the father, is an "offspring" of the Father and thus considered to be created. This fundamental relationship is correctly and aptly expressed by calling the father creator the Father and the son creation the Son.

A diagram is not a photo ID. I had in mind a genealogy diagram where it shows the branches of each generation. Identical twins would be shown side by side. The same entity would occupy the same place, etc. In the Father-son relationship, the Father is shown above the son, i.e.

FATHER

|

SON

NOT...

FATHER/SON

NOR

FATHER -- SON

In the Father-Son scenario the Father is always older and always first and generally more powerful and preeminent and could be without a beginning, existing in some complex time loop. The son, though, has a specific creation date, is younger than the father, etc. ...and definitely not the same individual no matter how similar he is to the father.

Anyway, as far as drawing the "face" of the Messiah, God did that himself when he demonstrated the "sign of the son of man" in the clouds to the anointed, one such "sign" that was captured photographically and sent to me. So, there is a picture or image of the Messiah not subject to man's interpretation but it's God's own imagery. Let me know if you want to examine God's handiwork.

JCanon

20

Was the Holy Spirit part of Jesus or a force controlled by God

by shotgun in

the account where the woman with the blood flow touched jesus outer garment and was cured interests me.. jesus felt the power leave him and looked to see who touched him.

if the holy spirit was an active force seperate and controlled by god why would jesus have felt a power drain.. if you consider most of jesus healings to be a placebo which only healed people who believed like present day faith healers do this account sheds a different perspective.. if you believe jesus was god and all powerful it seems strange that he would notice the insignicant power needed to stop a flow of blood considering the awesome displays of power which never seemed to bother him(calming a storm, replacing a severed ear, raising the dead, feeding thousands with basically nothing..although my mom could do that too).

what are your thoughts...yes you too mr canon...not too long though...ok...remember kiss

JCanon

If you believe Jesus was God and all powerful it seems strange that he would notice the insignicant power needed to stop a flow of blood considering the awesome displays of power which never seemed to bother him(calming a storm, replacing a severed ear, raising the dead, feeding thousands with basically nothing..although my mom could do that too)
What are your thoughts...Yes you too Mr Canon...not too long though...OK...remember KISS

Hi. This is interesting for sure. But I'd basically say we are just getting some bits of the picture that could be very specific. I wouldn't know if Jesus was not always aware of the force of power occurring and we can speculate on likely many scenarios that would fit the text. But not knowing, we can't really superimpose what WE THINK should have been the case that doesn't fit.... Sometimes things are "confusing" or even "contradictory" simply based upon lack of imagination or information. If I said someone was hovering 50 feet above me for 30 minutes one might presume I was crazy if I left out it was a policeman in a helicopter...?? The scriptures says he felt the power go out of him, it didn't say he was drained.

On the other note, I do believe that the "holy spirit" sort of works "automatically". It's not a person per se, but it performs logical activities based upon it's programming; and that must have been part of the program. Jesus was just aware of it. The holy spirit is amazing. It's directable but programmable per my concept of it.

JCanon

11

here piggy piggy

by peacefulpete in

the fanciful tale in the nt about jeus expelling demons from a man by sending them into 2000 swine who subsequently leap into the sea and drown, has always perplexed me.

aside from the contradictions and other problems in the two versians of the story(eg.

number of possessed men, no "sea" for 30 some miles from place of setting etc.

JCanon

The scribes who changed "Gerasenes" to "Gadarenes" were presumably not aware of a small lakeside village called Khersa on the eastern shore, sounding like "Gerasa" through oral transmission.
Miracle stories evidently have many layers of significance, literary, psychological, and theological. They are far more fascinating if they are not naively accepted as history.

I find the above position rather subjectively irrelevant since one must presume that the geographic location intended, that which fits the geographic description, wasn't called that by the Bible writers. So as long as there is an actual geographic location that fits the reference (i.e. this story didn't take place in the middle of the Gobi desert, right? where there is no sea?), then one must allow for the possibility that a particular location that might be called something different NOW might have been known as something else back then. Why is it we presume the name of the location didn't undergo changes over time rather than the gospel writers being confused about it? Fact is, no one substantially rule out what any location was referred to in the ancient past, or that the same location was known by the name used in the gospels. How many towns have a "Main Street" and a "Broadway"? Yet I'm sure some "intellectual" downt he road of time might presume I was fantasizing if I were locating any incident on "Broadway" anywhere but New York, based upon their own lack of expertise in the topic. There are lots of examples of experts, professionals in their fields, like archaeologists, who will observe the same geographical site and based upon what they don't know or do know write a book about it, which is later used as a "reference" by others and it's completely out of date or wrong.

Sooo....knocking ancient manuscripts only goes so far; some things you just can't know for certain about.

JCanon

25

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 9-7-03 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 9-7-03 wt study

what about adam?

what did jesus say about the pharisees?.

JCanon

Why can't we handle it when truth exposes our inconsistences, our failed prophecies, our grabbing at spiritually insignificant things to make big deals of them?

The truth that I've found is that lots of "inconsistencies" and "failed prophecies" are due to the fault of misinterpretation and lack of expertise in examining all the evidence on the part of the people who are claiming failed prophecies and inconsistencies.

Case in point the chronology of the Neo-Babylonian period. The VAT4956 has two dates for the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar, 511BCE and 568BCE. That proves that period was revised, which was customary back then and easy to do. Yet few want to face that possibility let alone that reality because of what it will do to the "academic" world at all these universities who have presented another chronology. But that chronology is specifically the same dating as the Bible provides, proving the Jews kept accurate and truthful records compared to the Persians. So the perceived "inconsistency" depends on how up-to-date your references and information is. As far as "failed prophecies" goes, that too is subjective. For instance I believe the dated "great tribulation" was to occur to "Judea" and that's a reference to the resettled Jews in Europe, primarily Poland. So that prophecy was fulfilled when the Holocaust occurred shortly after which the Jews were reinstated in the Promised Land. That fulfills chronology as well as the prophetic context that shortly after this great tribulation the "end of the gentile times" would occur, that is, the Jews would regain control over Palestine. But if you don't have that specific interpretation or the correct chronology--looking for the wrong thing at the wrong time in the wrong place--then, of course YOUR prophecies will seem to have failed, but in fact, the failure is on the part of your misinterpretation, no the prophecy itself.

So I agree with Nicholson. When the hard TRUTH is something that rocks the boat, people want you to shut up about it--very few people are TRULY interested in TRUTH...that is, in the "unpopular" truth. If "truth" just happens to be consistent with what is politically correct at the moment then it's accepted; if not, they don't want to hear it. In the meantime, embracing darkness and half truth is the way of the modern world. The outer appearance is all that matters, the facade is more important than the substance.

JC

43

Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 3

by hooberus in

i will be posting some more "troublesome trinity" verses shortly.

i am trying to concentrate on the verses used by non-trinitarians to "disprove" the trinity.

"mighty god" is jehovah in isaiah 10:21, jeremiah 32:18 etc.

JCanon

The phrase "Mighty God" is a strong testament to the full deity of Jesus Christ (that He is Jehovah). The phrase "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6 when studied with the other "Mighty God" passages in the Old Testament offers no support whatsoever for the Watchtower contention that Jesus Christ is less "God" than the Father.

This is another case of the not being able to see the forest for the trees. John calls Jesus the "only-begoten GOD in the bosom position of the Father".

Now that's the PICTURE you should be developing when it comes to Jesus compared to God.

But what could be more fundamental than that most generic reference between the two that there can be, that of FATHER and SON.

So do you want to know the relationship between God and Jesus? It's not a mystery. It's FATHER and SON.

You can glorify or deify the son all you want to, it won't matter. As long as you keep them as FATHER and SON you're on track. The moment you get out of that and start redefining what "son" is in this special case, then you're going against scripture and apostasizing.

It's very simple.

FATHER.....SON.

He is called the ONLY-BEGOTTEN SON for a reason..... Is it a mysterious reason? No. It simply means he was the beginning of God's creative works and the only work that Jesus didn't assist with.

This is not difficult.

Father....son. There was the Father...he decided to create someone.....so who he created became his son. Okay.

That's why Jesus is called the "SON"....

Got it?

Do you need me to draw you a diagram?

11

here piggy piggy

by peacefulpete in

the fanciful tale in the nt about jeus expelling demons from a man by sending them into 2000 swine who subsequently leap into the sea and drown, has always perplexed me.

aside from the contradictions and other problems in the two versians of the story(eg.

number of possessed men, no "sea" for 30 some miles from place of setting etc.

JCanon

Hi BC....

Oh great stuff. This looks good!!! I'm really into the ancient mysteries and all that....I'll just comment quickly so you don't think I've ignored anything, but...

WE ahhh contrair, not I ! I've recently been viewing these tapes and have completely changed my views of the Bible and God. Some of the things discussed are:

I can totally understand that, but I have my reference points as well.

Examine the Bible's astrological and Hindu references.

Well, per the Bible, which assigns the identity of the church to the "moon", the angels to "stars" and the "son" to the Sun, it's a matter of thinking this was originally the case and the Bible's reference is simply parallel to that of the pagans or there was borrowing. But the option is there. The Garden of Eden was a "pattern" of what was in Heaven. "Let us make man in our image, male and female..." was a reference to the two covering cherubs, Michael and the angel who became Satan who is called "woman" at Genesis 3:15 thus Jesus/Michael's wife. Further, the man Adam represented Michael as did the Tree of Life, whereas the woman/Satan was represented by Eve and the Tree of Knowledge. Thus you have tree goddesses giving "milk" knowledge to it's followers, a key issue for the mother goddesses and attaining deification, etc. A long discussion, but very much a part of Eden and thus would have been passed on by Noah as a central conceptual idea of what happened. Further, as noted, the woman, who is beautiful but whose light comes fromt he sun is the woman, and Jesus the sun.

So my argument would be that Jesus is not a copy of Mithras but visa versa. Jesus/Michael was already the original "sun god"--the others are cheap imitations or competitive substitutes. But we agree that the "similarities" are more than that, that they are referencing the same things. I don't think it's a coincidence either.

"End of the World ie; End of the Ages, from the age of Pisces to the age of Aquarius in the Zodiac, see how the Bible is nothing more than a Hebrew reference to the Zodiac.

Sorry, the end of Satan's world, a new paradise earth and a savior that brings back dying mankind, plus two gods fighting one another, good vs evil, is an Edenic theme. In that case it would have come down through Noah and thus the Jews needn't have borrowed it from the pagans, they would have gotten it from Noah. Thus the Jews and the pagans have each their own version of the Noachin folklore of Eden, etc. It doesn't necessarily have to be a borrowing from some other culture....

Discover the stellar god (from the stars) the lunar god (from the moon) and the god El (from Saturn) and how they have influenced various religions.

No problem. These physical things were meant to represent heavenly things. 12 is a celestial number, the 12 tribes of Israel simply fell into place with the cosmos. It was appropriate that when Jesus came to the earth, cosmologically connected with the sun that Mary's annuncition, the conception of Jesus was at the time of the winter solstice, the birth of the sun. Likewise, the spring Passover Festival (when the Messiah dies) and the fall "Festival of Booths" (when the Messiah arrives) overlap the seasonal equinoxes. In fact, Jesus' own circumcision on the 8th day of the festival in 2BC falls on the equninox; so coordination with the heavenly bodies is definitely part of the Biblical story. Plus it's ongoing. That is, some interesting astral phenomenon still occurs on Biblically significant years and dates.

Uncanny similarities between the Virgin births of Krishna, Mithra, Indra, Prometheus and Jesus.

Not uncanny, the SAME reference. If Noah communicated to his family the story about Eden, the evil angel Satan and the war between Satan and Michael that was coming (good vs evil) and how this king would come to the earth and die and as a result of his death, at the hands of Satan no less (bruising him in the heel) then dying mankind would be restored, then you have the foundation for several mysteries mythologies right there. It's the SAME story...but it came from Noah originally. Jesus was the original sun god, Mithras is a pagan counterpart. Jesus only came to the earth to be human in 2BCE, but he was a god in heaven before the earth was created.

Underlying astroligical symbolism behind our religious and governmental institutions, such as the two fish of Christianity representing the Age of Pices.

What secrets and mysticisms some people take advantage of is not surprising. To connect any secretive or grand scheme to the universe or some ancient prophecy would be the least one would think of doing.

How sun worship of the pagans was transformed into "Son" worship of today's Christians and.....and this is the good part........the far-reaching impact Freemasons have had throughout history on our society and our belief systems. As well as the origins of the Freemasons and learn to decode occult symbols in order to gain a greater understanding of their influence on world finance.

Well you make a good point here. Christianity did borrow a lot from paganism but the Catholic Church's worship the "Son" in the trinity God and the worship of the "Madonna and son" or the "woman and her seed" (the original Satan) in the form of the beautiful Mary who is now a goddess and clearly borrowed from the Mother Goddesses of paganism, is how paganism has corrupted the original church and that was PROPHESIED that the "mystery" of this apostasy would take over and true church. But there is a difference between the Biblical references of Jesus as that of the Catholic Church with all it's pagan holidays including celebrating Christmas and all that. But you can't attach what paganized Christianity does with what the Bible outlines--there is a difference.

Here are the tapes I'm refering to:

Thanks. My estimation is that we are going to see an ABUNDANCE of information about the Freemasons in the near future because "Babylon the Great" who rides the back of the "scarlet-colored wild beast" (the UN) has to be destroyed by the UN soon (well, eventually). I figure the best and probably only way they can do that, which also involves confiscating all their money, is to criminalize the Freemasons and the Illuminati. Things the UN allowed and tolerated will not go over as well anymore. Part of the burning her with fire means exposing all her evils and once criminalized, even if it's just drug trafficking, the UN can "legally" confiscate all their vast financial holdings and the world won't blink. But they have to properly pre-propagandize the public about the Illuminati and the Freemasons so that they will be exposed and seen as criminals so that when the UN moves on them they can be legally effective. Otherwise, what they do in the closet would just stay there. So when I see more "informed" persons learning about the Freemasonry influence it just confirms for me that the UN has already planned on a sting operation against the Illuminati and the money industrialists controlled by Jewish-led Freemasonry.

This must happen...and it is happening. The more you see in the open public about the Freemasons from now on, therefore, the closer we are to Armageddon.

But here's something that's interesting. There is going to be a huge COUP by the UN and in the process of destroying Babylon the Great, which might be connected integrally to the so-called "industrial war machine", the three leading powers, Japan (Lion), Russia (the Bear) and the US and allies (Leopard) will surrender their soverienty to the UN!!

Now who would believe that? We know the UN is acting as it's own authority right now, but will the US ever give its power up along with RUSSIA and JAPAN? Not under these circumstances. BUT, if there is a planned COUP, say by the CIA who might be influenced by the Freemasons let's speculate, then the UN army might be the only army that could stop it. Or if there is some international market crash of some sort thought to be institated by the Illuminati in their bid to rule the world, then the US might not have any choice but to surrender sovereignty to the UN in order to stabilize the world economy and dethrone the monetary position of the Illuminati right now.

But you can't do this overnight. It has to be planned and orchestrated and the appropriate propaganda sent out first. So when you start seeing the propaganda and Freemasonry becomes a household word, then it's almost assured it's a movement to confiscate the funds of the money industrials but they need to expose their sins first.

At any rate, the UN is already in place as a governing body with its own army, all it's needs is an international money crisis to get full control over the world.

Per the Bible, this control would be in place for only one year and 3 months though, before one could expect the millennium to begin...that's all the time the Bible gives the superpowers after Babylon the Great (the fourth beast) falls! So it's kinda chilling to encounter Freemasonry "esposes" like this as often as I have been. It's the beginning of the real END!

Thanks, again, for the references!!! Guess I've got my reading cut out for me.

I'm glad I'm an inconspicuous unknown!!! Things are about to get ugly!!!

Thanks, again!

JCanon

11

here piggy piggy

by peacefulpete in

the fanciful tale in the nt about jeus expelling demons from a man by sending them into 2000 swine who subsequently leap into the sea and drown, has always perplexed me.

aside from the contradictions and other problems in the two versians of the story(eg.

number of possessed men, no "sea" for 30 some miles from place of setting etc.

JCanon

Yep just another one of the tales passed down from one ancient civilization to another, to another, to another and eventually written down by the Hebrews, then passed along to Christianity. It's all a story!

Interesting, but I think it might be something more than this; something more generic. Like maybe the angels find some delight in possessing a pig that drowns. It's one thing to borrow a tradition but something had to originate it--some mysteries symbolism of the pig itself or it's connection with demonism and Satanism. I'm still questioning why the demons prefer pigs after humans to posses. Or does a drowned pig provide some kind of a special relaxation of the torment cast out spirits have to deal with?

But I agree, alot in the "mysteries" seem to reflect some of the original understanding of what went on in Eden.

But to me Satan and the mysteries mock God and his arrangement in some way.

One story of the mysteries I compare to scripture, and this is the Eleussian mystery, is Dementer crying over her daughter who goes into Hades and then returns and her joy at that return. That's similar to the prodigal son being lost for a while in "Hades", in spiritual death, and the Father weeping over the loss but when that one returns, goes out to meet him and gives him new robes, "the best one" meaning he makes him the chief heir of the house, and delights over him, giving him a banquet. Even in scripture the "lost sheep" becomes the "lost coin" that is lost and the woman sweeps her house and frets over that one lost coin until she finds it and then when she does calls her neighbors over to rejoice.

So what is suggested, is that somewhere in the Jewish ancient folklore, they knew even back then that at the second coming the Messiah would die in Hades and be lost for a while and then when he returned the Father would make a huge fuss over him, in reality choosing him to be the Messiah. Thus the mysteries mocks God's choice to elevate the sinful son, the one who died in Hades (in sin) but came back, over all others.

And perhaps that has a generally greater meaning too, since mankind in a way was like that. They were lost in Hades, in death, in the abyss until Jove, caring for them, tried to get them back via the ransom sacrifice.

A further attest to the mysteries being linked to Satanism, in this setting, the banished and resentful angel, is in alchemy where we find Chronos using a sickle to cut of the feet of mercury, a symbol of Satan brusing the Messiah in the heel. That's likely as well the basis for the Achille's heel mythology.

But you see, the difference is, we are looking at parallel references to the folklore coming from Noah and the prophecies about the Messiah and the second coming. And somehow, the details have survived in the mysteries about what would happen and how.

The mysteries have not escaped scripture either. The "wilderness" in Revelation is a specific reference to the underground world in which the "mysteries" secret societies operate and the JIOR, God's own chosen secret society cult of Christ that know the Messiah is based in the "wilderness" as well. I suppose, since the "mysteries" and the practice of all that secretism made it necessary for the core true church to become a secret society as well, since how could it protect itself from imposters and spies of Satan if they were a public institution; anyone can infiltrate a public group or even a privately organized secret group. What was profane would become holy--that is, the ways of the mysteries would be adopted to benefit the JIOR, the secret society of Christ at the second coming so that Satan's mystical organizations couldn't see it. They identify themselves to each other, but to no outsiders.

I'll tell you this though. There are lots of secret "watchers" in the mysteries looking around at everything and hoping to find clues of the JIOR that they know exist. But God makes his own people recognize them in unusual ways. One way is he makes them do something unconcious so that we can identity who they are. For instance, for a while, he would make them get hot and start sweating, so we'd know he was a cult "watcher". Or he'd make them do some mannerism that we recognized, so we always knew who we were dealing with. But between the JIOR other things would go on between the members. But for sure, how can any regular mytery cult compete with holy spirit. You know, holy spirit can arrange for two people two be at the same place at the same time "coincidentally" without prior communication, etc. So even is somebody was watching constantly, they couldn't figure it out. That means I could be traveling across country and stop at some rest stop to eat or something and leave a secret message in some hidden place and a JIOR would come to that spot and be guided to find it, often when I'm still around or just leaving.

So...I don't discount the mysteries and the Satanic influence and information they have...it's relevant to what is going on and to what was prophesied, but the Bible has it's own original version of the same stories, it doesn't have to borrow from the pagans.

JCanon