watch feb 1st "if we really are the product of evolution and there is no creator, the human race would in a sense be an orphan.
mankind would have no source of superior wisdom to consult - no one to help us solve our problems.
we would have to resort to human wisdom to avert enviromental disaster.
Even before I was an atheist, this sort of thinking was hard for me to swallow. Basically, it's a purely emotional argument. "See, doesn't this make you feel bad? Just believe whatever makes you happy and all will be swell!"
I would like to think that the truth of an idea should count for something. After all, if humans evolved and there is no God, then that's probably the way it's always been. The world is exactly the same as it was yesterday. And we're still here.
recently my very active jw wife has been more critical of the wt and some of their stances.
she has particularly been critical of topics that hit home to some of the things going on in lives of our families.
i am still going through the motions as an active servant, but i am mentally out.
The only thing I would add to these suggestions is this: the next time she speaks up about an issue, encourage her to say more. Ask reasonable questions. Then acknowledge it when you think she has made a good point.
Don't ask her an overtly JW question, like, "But don't you think it's still the truth?" Just ask the kind of questions that get her to say more, then encourage her by letting her know when you agree. Take it slow, but after a time, you could start adding to her comments. As in, "Yeah! You know something else about that one is..."
Eventually, she'll build up enough confidence with you that SHE may actually ask YOU if you want to stay in. Or it will become obvious that the two of you are on the same wave length and you can finally know that it's safe to open up.
just wanted to introduce myself.
i went to the kh for the first time 2 weeks ago...and will go again tomorrow.
i don't believe anything witnessy...(i was raised in the assembly of god church and now the closest thing i "do" with religion is yoga or sometimes the buddhist temple).... but the man i'm in love with is a df'd jw (we've been together for 6 years).... and he wants to get reinstated just to talk to his family again (i can assure you he does not believe it).... and he wants his family to accept me because we are about to get married... so, i'm going to meetings...its very interesting, but only because it shows me more about how he was raised.
I would like to suggest that you don't really have to do this at all. Whether you go to meetings or not should have no real impact on his chances for reinstatement. Going to meetings won't help you get along with his family...they'll badger you and look down on you either way unless you convert. I don't think he's really thought this one through.
But as others have said, be prepared to be badgered about a Bible study. Not only at meetings but by his family as well. It could get aggressive and even ridiculous.
I suggest you point out bad behavior from Witnesses when it goes too far. Site the fact that you're being nice and they are not. Then you can disappear for a while at a time after they act like jerks and rightfully claim that it's their attitude that's the problem, not yours. Make sure he understands what you're going through as well. Maybe he'll realize that this isn't a good plan for you and that, in the long run, it won't help him earn anyones approval either.
I was wondering about the same things regarding Assemblies of God as jwfacts, BTW. :-) I had the same impression about them.
or at least the public may be given the impression that jws and the wtbts are fair minded and do not discriminate against the homosexual lifestyle.
check out this quote from the nov 1, 2011 watchtower (public edition).
the article on page 4 is entitled 'ten questions about sex answered'.. question 8: does god approve of homosexuality?.
I agree with Oz. That's just how the writing dept rolls.
The literature often acknowledges a humbler or gentler point of view out of one side of its mouth while condemning it right from the other side of its mouth.
For instance, they sometimes acknowledge that it's not nice to shun people and that it sucks for Witness families to hurt their loved ones by shunning them. To readers who aren't paying much attention, that sounds pretty nice and makes it easier for Witnesses to deny shunning if things get awkward because they can quote that line out of context if they like. Then, in the very same paragraph, the same article will go on to say that Witnesses must shun DFed ones anyway.
I wouldn't get excited by this at all. It's standard practice.
i had not seen them in my neighborhood in at least 4 years.
i ddn't go to the door.
i avoid them when at all possible.
Before I moved, I saw them quite often. I only lived like 2 miles away, so... I've lived here a year and a half and only seen them once. Well, twice if you count the time one of my in-laws told a friend of hers it was okay to come by. (Thanks for saying that without asking either of us, BTW.)
I also used to see a lot of Mormons even though there weren't any Mormon temples nearby that I know of. Mormons and JWs were in the neighborhood at the same time on at least 2 if not 3 occasions. I'm sure that was fun for everybody. You shut the door on one and here comes another group like 10 mins later. Grrr...
I thought 7th Day Adventists did door to door work too, but I never saw any of them even though they were only 1 mile away. So I guess that's wrong?
I used to see Pentecostals almost as often of JWs and Mormons.
i'm keeping my distance from my parents but i keep running into my mother around town.
yesterday it was at walmart, a couple of weeks ago it was at the mall.
both times my husband was not acknowledged (basically shunned), hubby says its a weird feeling but he's ok with not having to talk to my mother.. i call my mother every couple of weeks or so and the last time i spoke to her (about two days before walmart) she said that she wished we could go shopping or go to lunch together.
Luckily, no one else in my family were ever JWs. Just my in-laws...which is plenty bad enough.
But my father is a master manipulator. I'd even call him machiavellian, like the archvillian from a TV show. My step-mother is pretty far up there as well, though in a way that's more typical of manipulative mom's. She treated her own daughters considerably worse than she's treated me, so I guess I was lucky.
I have very little to do with either of them now.
Now I think someone else mentioned this particular piece of advice, but it works for me, so I'll repeat it.
Just because someone is related to you doesn't make them family. Don't confuse these concepts. If your mom is poison and truly believes she has a right to be, then you're within your rights to treat her as poison. No one has the right to make you miserable to make themselves feel better. Not even your parents.
Being a parent isn't just a right that gives her some entitlements. It's a responsibility. You can't demand the one to an unreasonable degree without fulfilling the other to an unreasonable degree.
If she wants perfect deference out of you, then she needs to be the perfect mom. There's no such thing. But she'll keep hitting you with whatever works to get what she wants. Including guilt and telling you how much you owe her.
When do your wants matter? Shouldn't they matter to a loving parent?
Don't let yourself be swayed and used by guilt.
my ex.
me.
Not confronting Witnesses who harassed me for years after I left the KH sooner--or even going to the police.
the stress on jehovah's witness elders raising their children in "the truth" is causing many to literally go mad.. keeping their children in " the spiritual ark" is becoming more and more difficult.. many elders are snapping under the pressure.. one of our guests on the six screens conference call told of her elder father ( who everyone at the kingdom hall thought was an angel) came home from the meeting and killed the family dog in the kitchen with his bookbag as the family looked on....... join us tonight oct. 22, 2011 at 7 pm edt.
.... our guest will be wendy lee tucker former jw whose father was an elder and terribly abused her physically and emotionally.. she received horrific beatings..... hit with a bat, punched at, receiving a broken nose and became a prisoner in her home.. wendy was looked in her room with the doors being nailed shut when the family went off to the kingdom hall.. a far cry fom being a "spiritual paradise".
it is easy to get on the call....no computer is necessary.... just dial 712-432-8710 and when asked for pin use 9925. our lines open at 6:30 pm edt.....so come on early and talk with all those who have been "touched by the tentacles of the watchtower".
Making stuff up and spreading rumors doesn't help ex-Witnesses. It doesn't even hurt the WTS. In fact, it often helps it to keep JWs loyal because it provides the Society with examples of how nutty ex-Witnesses and opposers are. They say that the world is all evil and full of lies about them. Crap like this only proves them right. It also makes us look as screwy as the org to those who don't understand what the fuss is about.
Thanks, but could you knock it off already? You're hurting us. Not helping us. Or are you secretly a double agent or something like that?
i see i only get to post one thread a day so i'd better make this one count.. did anything scary or bad (besides shunning, etc.
) happen to you after you left?
what about if you decided to join another religion?.
The most frightening thing that happened to me was the harassment. I had Witnesses knocking on my door (didn't help that I lived only 2 miles from the KH), leaving 50+ messages on my phone every night, hassling me at work, etc. It was unreal and it went on for a couple of years. I was actually afraid to go outside!
If this happened today, I'd just go to the cops. Back then, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with this religion. Was I going to come back? Was I done? I didn't know. That made me a little uneasy as well.
my father and i have been going back and forth on facebook in private messages.
it had been since august that my dad had contacted me, before i was beginning to "come out" about not wanting to be a jw, and actually i haven't actually stated that to any of my family or jw friends yet, as i was hoping to do the fade thing.. well i wrote to my dad and he has recently been very sr (self-righteous) lately and was copy/pasting "answers" to my questions right out of the wt cd-rom.
i called him on it and asked him to speak out of his heart.
I also recommend you fade if your congregation is full of apostate hunters. If you can simply stop going to meetings, then I wouldn't drag it out unless there's a good reason. That's a good reason by your standards, not anyone elses, BTW. I simply stopped going and was never DFed or anything like that, but some say their congregations will DF you even if you simply stay away.
The thing is that your relationship with your family will be needlessly complicated if you get DFed or try to DA yourself. So why bother with that? Better to be inactive.
I appreciated the part about your father speaking to you in a fake voice. I've noticed that many JWs do this thing where they talk to you in their elder-giving-a-talk voice. It's the one they often use in field service, actually. It's like they think this is a conference call, and Jesus is on the 3rd line, so they want to sound professional to impress him or something.
Good luck. Welcome to the board.
