That is what is known as Unconditional Love. Not something heavily promoted in the bible or any cult.
It is terrible so many never know such love and security. Sad.
Julie
Posts by Julie
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24I'm A Better Parent Than Any JW.
by Englishman ini was sat watching tv tonight, her ladyship was dozing after a hard day, george the cat was purring and number 3 son had fallen asleep.. number 2 son was talking on the phone to his girlfriend, number 1 was out selling finance to prospective home-buyers.. know what?
these sons of mine know that i am always on their side, no matter what they do.
i can't think of anything that they could do to stop me loving them.
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100
So, okay you 'christians', what does God REALLY
by AGuest ini would exhort you to first ask... and then listen... to the master's voice on the matter, and if you cannot 'hear'... or exercise faith in what you 'hear'... then go to the 'scriptures'.
for indeed, it is 'written'... in the scriptures.
it is not, however, 'written' in the letters, histories, chronologies and gospels.
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Julie
Hi Shelby--dear one,
I 'searched' your 'replies' and found no 'answer' to my 'post'. I saw nothing that is even 'related' to the really 'sick shit' (a.k.a. scripture) I 'posted' to you. Here it is again, in case you 'forgot' what it was 'about':
Judges 4:21
And Jael the wife of Heber proceeded to take a pin of the tent and to put the hammer into her hand. Then she went to him stealthily and drove the pin through his temples and beat it into the earth while he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
Judges 5:24-26
Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite will be most blessed among women, among women in the tent she will be most blessed. Water he asked, milk she gave; In the large banquet bowl of majestic ones she presented curdled milk. Her hand to the tent pin she then thrust out, and her right hand ot the mallet of hard workers. And she hammered Sisera, she pierced his head through, and she broke apart and cut up his temples.My question is: If I drive a tent spike through the temples of some guy's head can I too be "most blessed among women in the tent"?
I will take a direct 'answer' whenever you 'hear' your voices in your 'head'.
'Thanks'--
Julie -
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"Mire of atheism..."
by Julie in:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .
i found these words to be so interesting.
i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.
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Julie
AF--
Why do we hit our heads against the wall like this?
Julie
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Haves and have nots
by joelbear ini think it all comes down to the price you pay for having more materially than others.. i think, in the end, those people are pissed off because we live so much better in this country than they do in theirs.
it is to their leaders advantage to blame the u.s. for their bad lot in life.
if they didn't, the people would start examining the enormously rich ruling class of basically every middle eastern country who just allow their people to subsist or starve to death.. clever tactic using the opiate of the people and promises of paradise to get people to do the unthinkable.. it has always been thus.. hugs.
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Julie
Amen Joel, amen.
Julie
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21
Brits: 90% Say Go In With Yanks.
by Englishman ini thought you folk in the states might like to know how things stand this side of the pond.. sky news interactive showed that 90% of those polled thought that the uk should join with the us military in attacks on countries harbouring terrorists.. the the entrance to the us embassy in london is stacked high with flowers and tributes, the fdr statue in particular has also been similarly honoured.. flags all around the country are at half-mast.. the queen ordered that the daily changing of the guard ceremony at buckingham palace should feature the usa national anthem, this has never happened before at such a nationalistic event.. the famous last night of the proms at the albert hall and hyde park has been restructured to honour the american dead.. it is know that several hundred brits were in the trade centre at the time of the attack.. i just wanted you people to know that your country is by no means on its own in this crisis.
((((((big british hugs))))))).
englishman.
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Julie
Hey E-man--
I have seen on TV the reaction of the people in Britain and I have to tell you I found it so touching. All the flowers and stuff at the embassy, seeing people crying and sympathizing--really heartwarming. Inasmuch as we enjoy our friendly rivalry on this board (who's better? etc) when it comes down to it--you guys are our best friends.
Tell everyone for us that we thank them for everything and we love you guys.
Julie, who knows there is going to be some seriously ugly reprecussions for this
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100
So, okay you 'christians', what does God REALLY
by AGuest ini would exhort you to first ask... and then listen... to the master's voice on the matter, and if you cannot 'hear'... or exercise faith in what you 'hear'... then go to the 'scriptures'.
for indeed, it is 'written'... in the scriptures.
it is not, however, 'written' in the letters, histories, chronologies and gospels.
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Julie
:Lets cut Shelby a little slack, come on whatda ya say.
Absolutely not. I want answers.
Julie
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93
"Mire of atheism..."
by Julie in:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .
i found these words to be so interesting.
i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.
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Julie
WW/Rex,
I see you are desperately trying to distract me from my questions on certain posted scriptures by bogging me down with all the unrelated bible content. You waste your efforts, I will not be deterred. You will either answer or admit you cannot.
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You said:
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations -- the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you --
Obviously, there are a couple of GOOD questions hiding in here:
Did God actually command Israel to do this, or did they just invent this divine sanction to justify territorial greed or genocidal tendencies? --(Remainder of violent blather deleted for length)Why would God use a nation as questionable as the post-Exodus Israelites to deliver His "judgment" on the Canaanites? (Why not just use natural disasters, such as earthquakes [Num 16], volcanic-type phenomena [Gen 19], or plague [2 Kgs 19.35]?)
What about all the innocent people killed in this "holy war"--families, "good" Canaanites, etc.? Even if it is 'okay' for God to execute judgment on nations within history, why didn't He only kill the evil-doers?
Doesn't wholesale slaughter of nations seem a little incompatible with a God of Love and Mercy?
------------------------------------------------------------------You make a good point here WW, I am in full agreement that a God of love would not commit/order wholesale slaughter. So then what? Either the biblegod is a violent maniac or those who wrote the bible were LYING. I know this irritates you but it is SIMPLE.
The OT is filled with stories of God-ordered whoesale slaughter. The same applies to all of them. God is either a homicidal maniac OR the writers are LYING. You pick.
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You said:
Who exactly WERE these people that God wanted Israel to 'exterminate'?
Were there any limits placed upon Israel in this venture, and what was the EXACT content of the orders?
----------------------------------------------------------------Hmmm, from what I have read each massacre seems to have different "limits". Sometimes every living creature was to be slaughtered, even livestock, other times the Jews were told to save the virgins and/or various valuables for themselves.
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You said:
Do we have any precedents, paradigm cases, or similar incidents of such orders/actions to annihilate?--------------------------------------------------------
There are scores of them, you know that. That is the main content of the OT.
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You said:
The story of Sodom and Gomorrah seems similar with the main exceptions that the cities were destroyed WITHOUT human agency, and that the vegetation was destroyed. God used some type of natural disaster to accomplish the destruction.----------------------------------------------------------------
I know you really like to credit yourself with rather complicated, well rounded views of all the aspects of scripture. Has it occured to you that maybe Sodom and Gomorrah fell victim to an earthquake and the barbaric nomadic tribe ("God's people") had extreme disdain for cities/civilization? Certainly a possibility to the open minded inquirer, which of course you are not one.
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You said:
They were exposed to/had access to the pure message of God through Melchizedek--the priest-king of Salem--(who probably led Abraham to the true knowledge of God!). Nonetheless, they were extremely evil people (and who were proud of it--Is 3.9: The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it.), and their crimes were both against God (Gen 13.13) and against people (Gen 18.20).
-------------------------------------------------------------Gee WW, this sounds so similar to what the people who attacked America are probably using for justification too. Barbaric.
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You said:
and the NT refers to it as an example of judgment-future (2 Pet 2.6) with a special emphasis on sexual perversion (Jude 7). The fact that 'all the men of the city' were involved in the intended assault on Lot, indicates that the 'outcry' must have come from surrounding areas--hence, the 'international' scope of their evil. The destruction was immediate and total, including the surrounding cities and the vegetation (Gen 19.25), and is even used as an example by our Lord in Luke 17.29.
----------------------------------------------------------I have no doubt this was referred to in order to inspire fear in people so they would adhere to the teachings being propagated. As is the case with most of the bible. It is to instill fear so people will "believe".
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You said:
It is important to note that (1) they had plenty of access to 'truth' (at LEAST 25 years); (2) their crimes were perverse, public, and the cause of international protest/outcry to God(!); (3) the annihilation was a judgment; (4) God was willing to spare the innocent people--if any could be found; (5) children living in the households of their evil parents apparently died swiftly in the one-day event (instead of being killed--as homeless orphans--by a combination of starvation, wild beasts, exposure, and disease; or instead of being captured and sold as slaves by neighboring tribes, for the older ones perhaps?); (6) the one innocent man and woman are delivered (along with their children of the household).
-------------------------------------------------------------Wow WW. Doesn't this ring a bell with you? Isn't this the exact attitude of JWs?
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The Flood of Noah
----------------------------------------------------------------I do not believe the accounts of the global flood, I suspect it was a massive, horrible local flood. However I notice how you again talk about how they had access to "the truth" (as they say in WT-land) and since they didn't listen they were eliminated. Just like the JWs say will happen to those who don't join the cult. Does it not dawn on you the similarities in the reasoning here? But of course you reject it coming from the WT but not the bible. It's all the same.
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You said:
The Amalekite initiative looks like an ordered annihilation.
This is what the LORD Almighty says: `I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" (I Sam 15.2f)
---------------------------------------------------------------------What an all-loving, forgiving God!!! What had the infants, children and livestock do? Nothing. Just another clear demonstration that biblegod is a horrible being.
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You said:
The Amalekites are a predatory, raiding, and nomadic group;-----------------------------------------------------------------
I see, they are bad and so we to will do as they do. How enlightened.
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You said:
In each of these cases the peoples did NOT 'change behavior'--------------------------------------------------------------
Just like those who refuse to listen to the JW message of "hope". Are you at all seeing any of the similarities here?
-let's look at one people that DID: the "anti-Example" of Ninevah.
In the book of Jonah, we have an 'averted annihilation'.The wickedness of the city is great; prompts God to intervene (1.1-2).
The word of the LORD came to Jonah son of Amittai: 2 "Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me."
God sends Jonah to pronounce what LOOKS LIKE an 'unconditional prophecy' (3.3f)--
Jonah obeyed the word of the LORD and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very important city -- a visit required three days. 4 On the first day, Jonah started into the city. He proclaimed: "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned."
Instead of turning a deaf ear (or even a scornful tongue) to Jonah, the people 'change direction' (3.5-9):---------------------------------------------------------------
Did it ever occur to you that maybe the Israelites had a bigger, better army and so unconditional surrender was their only option? Reminds me of the Taliban. Do it our way or die. Apparently barbarism is with us to stay.
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God responds to this "attitude adjustment" in grace (3.10):
When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.
(Notice that all during this judgment-time, God was still 'concerned' for Ninevah (4.10): But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?")So, in this "anti-Example" you have a people, confronted with truth/warning, who respond and avert the annihilation.
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Or maybe since the people complied with the demands of the Israelites and submitted to their religion they were spared a brutal attack. Just like what the JWs claim. Worship/believe like us and you'll be saved.
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You said:
There is an obvious pattern here:
The annihilations are judgments.
These judgments are for publicly-recognized (indeed, international and cross-cultural in scope!) cruelty and violence of an EXTREME and WIDESPREAD nature.
These judgments are preceded by LONG PERIODS of warning/exposure to truth (and therefore, opportunity to "change outcomes").
Innocent adults are given a 'way out'
Household members share in the fortunes of the parents (for good or ill).
Somebody ALWAYS escapes (Lot, Noah, Kenites)
These are exceptional cases--there are VERY, VERY few of these.----------------------------------------------------------------
Wow! Now this is exactly what the WT teaches. Only they will be spared and all of us who scoff at their ridiculous teachings will perish as well as our innocent children etc.
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You said:
Notice that Abraham cannot have the land until the 'sin of the Amorites' reaches some 'maximum threshold'. This certainly LOOKS LIKE a judgment by God on the peoples of the Land. Also, notice that the evil treatment by Egypt of the Israelites (enslavement and mistreatment) are NOT 'evil enough' to warrant annihilation--only "punishment". We might therefore expect the 'sin of the Amorites' to be more extreme than that of Egypt.
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Or we might assume that the Jews were thinking there might be some hope of conversion.
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You said:
16 "`Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.--------------------------------------------------------------
and yet we have Gen.38:6-10. Poor Onan gets struck dead because he wouldn't get his brother's wife pregnant.
-----------------------------------------------------------Ok WW, I have addressed much of the total unrelated blather you posted in order to avoid answering for the scriptures I posted. I will stop here for two reasons. I didn't touch on the matters of incest, bestiality or child sacrifice. I listed specific scriptures and it is your turn to answer them or admit you cannot. Secondly, as you know doubt intended, it is too long for the time I have. Again, you chose to address, in an extremely lengthy manner (no doubt hoping for distraction) completely unrelated issues. I ask you to answer for a three little examples, you knew this when you wrote your post and then you post all this Other Stuff and claim you won't address mine because your post was already too long (by design I suspect).
So prove yourself honest, I have mostly met your unreasonable demand, now meet my reasonable one or admit you cannot.
Refusing to be deterred, likely to your dismay,
Julie -
100
So, okay you 'christians', what does God REALLY
by AGuest ini would exhort you to first ask... and then listen... to the master's voice on the matter, and if you cannot 'hear'... or exercise faith in what you 'hear'... then go to the 'scriptures'.
for indeed, it is 'written'... in the scriptures.
it is not, however, 'written' in the letters, histories, chronologies and gospels.
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Julie
Hiya Shelby--
Still waiting for your answer.
Julie
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100
So, okay you 'christians', what does God REALLY
by AGuest ini would exhort you to first ask... and then listen... to the master's voice on the matter, and if you cannot 'hear'... or exercise faith in what you 'hear'... then go to the 'scriptures'.
for indeed, it is 'written'... in the scriptures.
it is not, however, 'written' in the letters, histories, chronologies and gospels.
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Julie
Hey there Shelby--
I thought I would bring this post up to the top so it would be easy for you to find and answer to my reply.
Julie
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20
SIGH! And so once again, 'earthling' man....
by AGuest in'dominates' earthling man... to his own injury.. there are two sides to this coin, dear ones, as there are two sides to every coin.
unfortunately, both 'sides' to this one... are sick... and the 'defect'... is theirs.
to the detriment of a great many 'innocent' people.
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Julie
Hi Guest--
I was wondering, could you answer my reply to your post about what does God exect of us? If you did I missed it.
Let me know--thanks
Julie