Thanks for sharing, Robdar:)
I think it's great that there is finally research showing that animals are sentinent, yet somehow I think it's kind of sad that it takes research to "prove" it. I've interacted with various animals all of my life, and common sense has been enough for me to realize that they can and do communicate amongst themselves and across species lines.
It's the same with babies. A lot of people have the erroneous notion that babies come out with only a partially developed nervous system, so are not as "aware" as they will be at later stages of their development. Well, having given birth to five kids myself, I don't believe that for a second. Those little guys come out fully aware-usually much more aware than older people. They are so aware, they have to close out stimuli so that it doesn't become overbearing. That closing out is defined by researchers to be a lack of awareness.
Babies who are with family members often act very differently than babies who are in the company of strangers. I had some of my kids in the hospital, and some at home. The differences in the way they interacted was staggering. The hospital born babies "shut down" shortly after birth and slept a lot until they were home. The home born children remained active and alert, with shorter sleep periods while only family was present, but shut down and fell into a deep sleep or cried when there were people present who were not immediate family. I had one child who was inconsolable when non family members were in the house, and I had to limit visiting time for my friends until he was a bit older (he is still very sensitive).
I respect the advances of science immensly, but in a way, I think the scientific model of viewing the world also has negative effects on how people think about and interact with the environment. It's easy to objectify and exploit the things that you don't feel have the capability to interact with you.Hopefully studies like this will cause a shift in thinking and actions.
Thanks again
Cic
Cicatrix
JoinedPosts by Cicatrix
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17
Story caused me to cry tears of joy
by Robdar inproof that animals are sentient, intelligent beings:
by bilen mesfin, associated press writer .
woodside, calif. - when koko the gorilla used the american sign language gesture for pain and pointed to her mouth, 12 specialists, including three dentists, sprang into action.
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Cicatrix
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I finally went to CHURCH----and didn't feel guilty!
by findingme ini've was df'd over 6 years ago after spending all of my life a jw.
i remember thinking i could never step foot in a church out of guilt or fear.
however, i am feeling a loss of some kind of christian fellowship....i think i read a few other posts regarding this need for some of you.. i knew i would not go back to a kh, either.
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Cicatrix
Finding Me,
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm glad for you that you are finding a kind of peace you didn't have before.
The first time I entered a church after leaving the JWs, I was literally shaking. I came away with that same feeling of awe that you descibed, though, and just kept attending and working my way through the indoctrinated phobia. It's been four months since I've started going to church, and I still have that same feeling of awe and freedom. We have live music at our church (lots of African American spirituals, complete with clapping,etc.:) ), and it brings me to tears to listen to the music and to sing the hymns.
I'm still working through some JW "stuff." Not so much guilt now, as feeling the pain of what I've been missing out on all these years. I have a tendency to start crying when I speak about my past experiences, and how being a part of my new community makes me feel so very greatful. It makes me feel kind of wishy washy and very vulnerable to be so open (I'd learned to close myself off when I was JW), but there is always someone there to give me a hug, and tell me I've come a long way, and that it'll take time to heal.People listen, and comment on their own healing after dealing with authoritarian religions (and there are others who are at the same junture that I am with whom I can talk), but no one tells me how it "should" be, or that I should just pray more and rely on God more. And I am realizing that I need to give in to this grieving process so I can move on.
I agree that religion is for people and not God. I think most of us have an innate need to be part of a community where we can both nurture and be nurtured.I will NOT let the years of indoctrination in WTS policy take that away from me. -
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What have you replaced the Sunday meetings with?
by Glenmore ini have got into the habit of checking this forum and then going out on the deck (which we call the church of flow, it's a perch about 30' up) and playing my guitar for an hour or so - particularly on nice days like today.
then i come back in, look a bit of tv, eat, read and stuff like that.
i consider my sunday's sacred, i won't go anywhere unless i have to.
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Cicatrix
One thing I tend not to do is to structure my Sundays now, so it depends a lot on how I feel when I wake up.
Sometimes, I get up and have coffee and surf the net while the kids are still sleeping (and of course stop off here).Then when they wake up, I will have them run across the street and get Krispy Kreme donuts and a newspaper, which we will divide up (heh heh-read fight over) and read.
If there is something interesting going on at the church forum, I might go there and then to the service that follows (I can't explain how nice it is not feel compelled to attend every Sunday). Afterwards, I go to my favorite library (which is right across the street from the church, and open on Sundays, whoohoo).
I usually take a walk in the afternoon (I walk alone mostly, because I do walking meditation), then hang out with my kids. Sometimes, we go see a movie, go to the amusement park, or take a hike at a nearby park.We usually have something grilled for supper (my son is proudly learning how to use the grill), which we prepare together (the boys agree that the food tastes better when we all contribute to preparing the meal).
After dinner, we play with our dog in the back yard and hang out on the swing and talk. Or we might watch a video or something on tv (I'm not so much into tv anymore, though, and usually read or write letters while they watch).
I'm heading back to college this fall, though, so Sundays will probably be spent doing homework now, lol. -
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Children at the meetings...
by desib77 ini've noticed quite a few "meetings" threads lately and thought i would add another one.
i remember when i was young, 8-12 years old, my mother would see a sister take her baby or children to the back.
my mom would get up and go back there with her.
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Cicatrix
I was never offended when others offered to help. The problem I had was that I would get pulled aside and "counseled" by the elders that my children should remain with me at my seat during the meetings. Even though I had five small children. Even though I brought those five small children by myself to the meeting. This only happened in one congregation I attended, though. At the other, they seemed to care more about families, and it was permissable and encouraged for others to help with the children.
At the "counseling" congregation, my daughter and I tried to help out the young mothers, and we were told that there were certain people "assigned" to help out, and that we were not to take the children. Scarily enough, one of the people who was assigned to help is a man I suspect is a pedophile (his own grandaughter said that he had abused her). -
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I'm thinking about attending a Unitarian Universalist service this Sunday
by DanTheMan inthoughts?
opinions?
experiences?
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Cicatrix
The UU church here has lots of different programs of interest. There is a book group, a writing group, a women's studies group, an ecology group, and astronomy group, and those are only the ones I can think of at the moment. If you wanted to start an Existentialist club, a UU congregation would be a good place to announce it, lol.
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coolest thing about your old KH?
by Lostreality in.
at my old hall, after the new sound system was installed, it would pick up am radio.. i have never known so much about the seattle mariners as i did in the 3 months it took them to find a fix for it.
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Cicatrix
It had windows, and outside the windows in the back yard were some pretty little birch and pine trees.
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I'm thinking about attending a Unitarian Universalist service this Sunday
by DanTheMan inthoughts?
opinions?
experiences?
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Cicatrix
"Mostly the rejected of society find their way there. Gay and Lesbian, radical-political, spacey new-agey, do-it-yourself autodidacts, etc. Really nice people and interesting."
About half the congregation I attend are university professors,scientists, speech pathologists, local politicians and the like.Some happen to be gay, lesbian, bisexual,on the New Age path, Pagan,eco-conscious folks
e, passionately political (refreshing after my college government class to see anyone who even cares about what's happening in the political arena, lol).So what.
They may be rejected by the most conservative factions in society who see anyone who is striving to bring about changes that don't match their particular paradigm as a threat, but they are definitely not rejected by society as a whole. The church I attend is very active in various interfaith programs in the community, as well as social and political causes.The cool thing is that the so-called "rejected" of society are also treated as valuable members of the congregation, not people to be scapegoated.The church only benefits from having their gifts to help breathe life into the church community. Also, their respect and care for children just blows me away.
If you go to a UU service expecting someone to lead you to THE TRUTH, as in one absolute set of beliefs that you can bet your eternal life on, you may be dissapointed. The emphasis is more on finding what works for you, learning about what works for others, and sharing a common bond of being seekers, and challenging each other with respectful debate and discussion.
I enjoy my solitary sojourns into experiencing life and spirituality, but I also like to converse with folks who are like-minded, who are interested in spiritual things, the arts, science, family,and all of the other things that makes life meaningful for me.I also enjoy the ritual of service, the singing (real LIVE MUSIC whooohooo!), and the readings. I am learning so much, just listening to the experiences of others who share things that they have learned along with their own particular beliefs!It's kind of like this message board, only in real life, lol.I like everyone here a lot, and I've learned a lot, but I don't think the internet can ever be a substitution for human companionship and a real community to belong to. -
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What Was The Stupidest Rule In Your Hall?
by minimus in....or even, "what's the stupidest organizational rule that you know of"?
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Cicatrix
"We got blacklisted mainly because we tried to start a program to do this and they didn't like it. "
You too? LOL-I thought mine was the only congregation that did that. -
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exterminate ... exterminate ... EXTERMINATE - the Daleks are BACK !
by Simon in.
any other doctor who fans?
the new series is now going to have the daleks back in it .... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3535588.stm.
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Cicatrix
Cool! I hope PBS airs it here again. Or Sci-Fi channel. I think Tom was definitely the best, and his sidekick Sarah.
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Ok. To all the women (mothers) posters
by sunshineToo inwhat did you do when you were 35-week pregnant.
i'm so tired.
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Cicatrix
{{{SunshineToo}}}
I've been in your shoes (which probably fit kinda funny right now due to the water retention,lol) five times, so I'm feeling for you.
Like everyone else, I slept as much as I possibly could those last few weeks.
I tried to get outdoors every day, but since most of my kids were winter babies, this wasn't always possible, due to icy conditions. Getting outdoors for a bit seemed to help me sleep better.
I went shopping for whatever baby things I hadn't picked up yet, like diapers, soap, etc. I would make sure to stop in the baby clothing aisles and look at all of the adorable little things and remind myself that in the next few weeks, I would be holding my little one, and they would be wearing those impossibly tiny things, lol.
I also went shopping for a special gown,comfy socks, robe and slippers to wear at the hospital for the first three, and for me to wear at home for the last two, who were born at home. Somehow, buying the nursing gown, robe and slippers really helped me to prepare mentally for birth. Also, I would buy chapstick for during labor. For me, cherry chapstick was a necessity-just couldn't have that baby without it,lol.
I made sure I had lots of paper plates and cups on hand, and the numbers of the local takeout places posted. I put a few casserole type meals in the freezer, but mostly we just had take out for a few weeks after the babies were born. When our last one was born, my friends asked me what we wanted for gifts, and I told them meals for the family. They arranged to bring in dinner every night for a week, and this was the best gift I think we ever got.
I had a copy of one of Sheila Kitzinger's books on pregnancy and birth, which I would look at every day. It had beautiful photos, and I loved her philosophy on birth and motherhood.
I read lots of "bubblegum" paperback novels, too:)
I had my sisters and my mother come over lots to keep me company.We ate lots of nutritional food and some that was not so nutritional but comforting. They were also great about helping out with chores around the house, and my little sister painted my toe nails for me when I could no longer reach them (I reciprocated when she had her kids-it kind of became a family tradition,lol).
Later, when I lived hundreds of miles away from my family, I had a couple of high school aged girls in the congregation who were sort of surrogate sisters,and we would hang out together like my sisters and I had.
I kept a journal throughout my entire pregnancies, and I found that I had more time to write in it toward the end of my pregancies.
I finished decorating the nursery.
With one baby, I drew my own birth announcements, and had my dad take them in to the print shop where he worked (and the really odd part is, the baby I drew looked EXACTLY like my son).
I rented all of the "Look Who's Talking" movies and watched them, and any other baby themed movie I could find.
I practiced relaxation and visualization exercises every day.I would listen to certain cds when I did this, and then I used those cds while in labor. Because of the practice before hand, when I heard the music during labor, I had an almost automatic relaxation response. Later, the same music would calm the baby when they started crying.Since you play piano, maybe you could record yourself playing some particularly meaningful pieces for you, and try this.
When my daughter was at that stage, a friend and I had a mother's rite of passage ceremony for her, in which we had a candle ceremony, read poetry to her, adorned her with flowers, and gave her gifts just for herself (one of which she refused to take off the whole time she was in labor, lol). You can learn about rite of passage ceremonies on the net. If I'd known about them when I had my babies, I wouldn't have hesitated to do something like that for myself.
There are also, according to my daughter, great message boards on the net. She's made some good online friends at a couple of her mommy boards.
I used to make up mommy gift baskets and give them to the expectant mothers in the congregation at 35 weeks. It would have bath salts, lotion, a little box of chocolates, a book of some sort to read, and other little things in it for the mom to pamper herself.I'd do the same thing for myself, too;)
My best to you and your little one:)
Cic