Posts by Vanderhoven7

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, exactly.

Times of the Gentiles:

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh . . . and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Luke 21:20, 24)

The times of the Gentiles referred to the treading down, or desolation, of first century Jerusalem, which Jesus called "the days of vengeance". In other words, it was God's mission for the Gentiles to bring judgment upon Jerusalem. This is consistent with past judgments upon Israel, when God brought Gentiles armies into their land to desolate it.

The whole controversy centers on the duration of the treading down of Jerusalem. The Greek for "trodden" is pat-eh'-o (#3961 in Strong's Concordance), and it means "to trample down underfoot". The parallel to Lk.21:24 is seen in Revelation 11:2, which says:

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot (pateho) forty and two months."

The times of the Gentiles, or treading down of Jerusalem, entailed no more than a forty two month period of time, the exact duration of the Jewish-Roman War. This is in perfect harmony with Daniel 12:7, where the defining characteristic of "the time of the end" is said to be "the scattering of the power of the holy people", which we are told would be accomplished during "a time, times, and a half", or forty two months.

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Vanderhoven7

Well, it looks like I gave some wrong impressions due to incorrect wording. Let me straighten that out.

What I intended was...

Jews who survived Jerusalem's destruction in 70 AD were enslaved by the Romans and dispersed among the nations. Jews today (no doubt including some of their descendants) are still found in many nations.

The enslavement and dispersion of Jews among the nations in 70 AD was the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy found in Luke 21:20-24 which reads.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:20-22, 24 ESV)

This prophecy was fulfilled and is not slated to happen again.

Conclusion: The Great Tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 is prophecy fulfilled, i.e., over and done with.

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Vanderhoven7

@ Duran

What/when is the so-called 'parousia'?

Only God knows that. Our job is to be ready for the second coming of the Son.

Who are enslaved currently among the nations that can't return back to Israel now if they wanted to?

Who said anything about what Jew are experiencing today? I said the surviving Jews, when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, were dispersed as slaves among the nations. Jews are all over the world today and only granted a country in 1948 which has nothing to do with Matthew 24 or Luke 21:21-22. A similar enslavement and disbursement among the nations is not scheduled to happen again after the parousia.

Has Joel ever been fulfilled? Joel 2:17;3:1,2

Yes. In the events leading to and including those occurring in 70 AD. Acts 2:16-21

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Vanderhoven7

Vidqun

The context of the GT leads to the destruction of the temple and the subsequent dispersal of the survivors.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:20-22, 24 ESV)

This is exactly what happened to the survivors of the great tribulation. They were to be enslaved and dispersed among the nations where they have been for the last 1900+ years. This is not scheduled to happen again at or after the parousia.

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Vanderhoven7

@Vidqun

Context is everything

Matthew24:21. FOR THEN SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE.

The word tribulation means calamity or suffering. Lu.21:24 specifies the nature of this suffering. Josephus uses almost the very words of the Saviour.

"All the calamities says he, which
had befallen any nation from the beginning of the world, were but small in comparison to those suffered by the Jews. (Jewish Wars, b.i. preface, p.4)

The carnage of the siege, which lasted five months, was horrible beyond belief. Thousands died of starvation. When the Romans finally broke into the city, the sight of so many corpses shocked even hardened soldiers. The slaughter of the city’s citizens was so terrible that fires were extinguished by the profusion of blood" (Josephus, Wars 6.8.5).

Josephus records that 1,100,000 Jews were killed in Jerusalem, and that some 97,000 others were taken as slaves into captivity. It has been estimated that some 1,337,490 Jews in Jerusalem (and in the regions adjacent to Judaea) died — by famine, by the sword, by burning, and by crucifixion (Wars 6.9.3-4).

Some scholars believe that even these figures are too conservative. In fact, Josephus himself expressed the view that the suffering of this holocaust exceeded anything known to man previously (Wars, Preface, 4; 9.4).

This was the worst catastrophe Jerusalem and the Jewish faith would ever experience. To this day, they are without the law, priesthood, temple, sacrifice and their Messiah.

19

On the anniversary of Anthony Morris' Resignation

by Vanderhoven7 in

strange that after 2 years we still don't know the facts about anthony's resignation.

grant davus writes:.

the announcement.

Vanderhoven7

Strange that after 2 years we still don't know the facts about Anthony's resignation.

Grant Davus writes:

The Announcement

A great deal can be read into the way in which it was announced.

“Brother Anthony Morris III is no longer serving as a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

How about “It is with great regret that we have to announce that due to failing health . . . etc.”?

The lack of context and a consoling message places this announcement in the same league as

“Joe Bloggs in no longer a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

Past Behaviour

There have been many past rumours about his drinking which, though unconfirmed, do match the Bottlegate affair when Tony Morris was recorded buying half a dozen bottle of McAllans scotch at $80 a bottle on a Sunday morning and the slurred delivery of many of his talks and broadcasts. Here the empirical evidence tends to back rumour.

Protocol

Notable is the fact that Governing Body members cease their position when they die. Even when they become less active and retire, they are still classed as one of the Governing Body; we can assume he didn’t retire.

Unless Tony Morris himself breaks ranks or someone with a genuine inside track provides more detail, Watchtower, as a highly secretive organisation, will certainly not provide any further information.

On balance, particularly the curt delivery of the message, it’s more reasonable to assume Tony Morris didn’t jump; he was pushed.

Thank you

https://www.quora.com/profile/Rick-Vann-5/https-www-quora-com-profile-Norea-Pleroma-Sage-p-212059240?ch=8&oid=212097827&share=ff73386e&srid=f7CQl&target_type=post

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Vanderhoven7

Absolutely clear that the GB does not know how to interpret scripture. The GT of Matthew 24 occurred and terminated in the first century with the destruction of Jerusalem. The GT was a non-repeatable local event affecting "this people" inhabiting Judea and Jerusalem.

To make it a dual prophecy, is to make Jesus speaking simultaneously, literally to His generation of believers and figuratively to ours. And we are left trying to figure out what praying our flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath means. And what Jerusalem and Judea means and what the mountains mean and what not going home to pick up your jacket when roofing means...etc.

That there is not a Bible Scholar among them is obvious.

14

The Governing Body have a lack of self awareness in this discussion

by ukpimo in

david splane's infamous pandemic "land of the living" speech will be shown at the midweek meeting in 2 weeks.. https://www.jw.org/en/library/jw-meeting-workbook/march-april-2025-mwb/life-and-ministry-meeting-schedule-for-march-3-9-2025/.

in this item,.

7. demonstrate trust in jehovah’s organization.

Vanderhoven7

Talk about a lack of self awareness.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Bkta13hXrYY?si=M6DJefB9WARPztw4

51

Leaked Annual Meeting Video: "Expect Sudden Changes" Jeffrey Jackson

by raymond frantz in

jw
friends

https://youtu.be/uxqqyrrffow?si=wo0jotyvjg76oljk.

well that's sort of related to the next talk on our program brother jeffrey jackson will discuss the theme don't be surprised by sudden changes, brother jeff you have our.

attention well i'm sure we all agree with this fact in recent years there have been a lot of changes even since the last annual meeting there have been many changes some of them perhaps are a little surprising or may seem to be sudden but you know brothers and sisters when we look back on how these changes have come we can see that jehovah has gradually prepared us for each of these adjustments and changes let's review some of the recent changes we've had what changes have we seen with regard to our understand understanding of bible teachings at the 2021 annual meeting we received an adjusted understanding of john 529 it was explained that the resurrection of judgment will not be a judgment of condemnation rather it will be more like a period of probation the unrighteous mentioned at acts 24:15 will have an opportunity to gain everlasting life but their names will not be written wr in the book of life at the time of their resurrection to have their names eventually written in that book these ones will need to respond positively to the great educational work that will take place during the thousand-year reign then at the annual meeting in 2023 we gained enhanced insight into what we do know and what we don't know concerning jehovah's judgments we learned that the door of opportunity for people to take a stand for the kingdom does not shut when the great tribulation starts with the destruction of false religion at that time perhaps some will be like the egyptians in moses day who took a last minute stand and joined the exodus of god's people at the same annual meeting we adjusted our views with regard to jehovah's judgments of those who died in the flood and those who were destroyed in sodom and gomorrah also at that annual meeting an adjustment was made regarding the reporting of our time and activity in our preaching work instead of focusing on reports we try to make good use of every opportunity to witness then we receive the 2024 governing body update number two in that update we saw the need to adjust how we interact with those who have committed serious sins and have been removed from the congregation what other major adjustments have we recently seen in our preaching work the emphasis now is on studing bible studies and making disciples not on distributing literature to that end the focus is on studying meaningful conversations not just on using memorized presentations were you surprised by these adjustments perhaps so but as we look back we see how one adjustment in understanding gradually helped us with the next adjustment isn't it true that gradually jehovah has prepared us and when we look back on it we see how logical this training has been to refine our understanding but events in the world likewise have changed it's true sometimes in the world you have sudden changes for example the pandemic but often times change in the world is gradual isn't it true with regard to the view of morality homosexuality abortion even what's acceptable and not acceptable with regard to conduct all of that has happened gradually in the world and it's not until you look back and see how different the world is today with regard to those matters that we see that there have been a lot of changes but this can be dangerous because as things gradually change we may get used to gradual change and forget that there are some sudden changes about to occur uh let's take our bibles please and if you turn with me to the book of luke chap 21 now this is an example of sudden change in luke chap 21 uh notice there in verse 34 the words of our lord jesus are recorded and he said in verse 34 but pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with oving and heavy drinking and anxieties of life and suddenly suddenly that they be instantly instantly upon you it's interesting to note that jesus had already said that this day he was referring to would occur at a time that we don't think is likely so what lesson do we learn from what jesus said it's a warning isn't it that we can't just sit back and think well things are gradually going to develop we know which way it's going and maybe it's not going to happen yet you know got a little bit more wiggle room there with regard to the schedule but you see that's dangerous thinking now what we're going to do is consider two examples of areas where perhaps we could be a little guilty with regard to that for example our view as with regard to the number of anointed ones remaining on the earth now for many years what did we think we thought well that number would go down and down and down and down now i don't know about you but me i you when that report came out just how many how many partakers and and what were we thinking we probably you maybe we didn't say it but we were thinking you know the number will go down down down down and there'll be just a couple of old guys in a wheelchair who will get their reward well i'm exaggerating but that was sort of the feeling wasn't it but now what have we seen in recent years those numbers have gone up and up and not only that younger brothers have been appointed on the governing body now i know what you're all thinking two new ones how old are they we know you're not googling now but you will be but you see we need to be careful about what we're thinking with regard to the number of anointed ones left on earth you see 19 years ago i was appointed on the governing body even i thought i was too young now they tell me i'm not so young anymore but do we see the point what does the bible actually tell us with regard to this well it doesn't say the number would just dwindle down to just having a few uh older ones left no the great crowd of other sheep will be judged on the basis of how they deal with

Vanderhoven7

😂😂

37

serena williams

by FreeFallin in

not really a scandal, but serena williams doing the crip walk on national tv wtf .

Vanderhoven7

I don't see the problem either. You would think that the WT would have had a problem with Serena Williams posing topless for the 2016 Pirelli Calendar though. And did WT say anything about Venus Williams posing naked in 2014 and offering to do it again?