Congratulations on finishing your bachelor's degree. You're a good man trying to go easy on her. I feel so sad for people in situations like that. It shouldn't be that way. I don't know why people continue to believe destructive religious ideas that, as you said, view you as nothing more than "dressing up a pig." I've read even worse things JW's have said from the platform about a non-JW mate, and they are just cruel. I wish you all the best in your endeavors.
InterestedOne
JoinedPosts by InterestedOne
-
4
End of School for Now ( I should be excited.........but)
by out4good3 init's been a hard fought couple of years, but, finally, with great trepidation, i find myself graduating next weekend with the college degree i should've graduated with 25 years ago.
oh, i've got both two year college degrees under my belt, but this time it is the big kahuna, a bachelors degree.
summa cum laude with a near perfect gpa to boot.. i think back on the time when i first proposed going back to school with my wife......how she and the elders who visited me poo-pooed education and exclaimed that it would be a big waste of time.
-
-
-
35
LeavingWT: Why Never Discuss Doctrine?
by InterestedOne inamong the various helpful pieces of advice i have read here from leavingwt, i have noticed that he often tells people to never discuss doctrine with a jw.
i realize that discussing doctrine with a jw can be very frustrating, but i was wondering if there is a more far-reaching and less-obvious reason for this advice.
like is it related to some peculiar aspect of the jw mind that the average person would not be aware of?.
-
-
InterestedOne
Sizemik wrote:
They're programmed to be loyal to the WTS . . . not to doctrine per se.
Now I'm reminded of Song #63 "Ever Loyal." I think it is a pretty good example of the programming you're talking about. The 2nd & 3rd verses especially which are:
Ever loyal to our brothers, Sticking close in times of need
Ever caring, always trusting, Ever kind in word and deed.
We show honor to our brothers And respect them from the heart.
Let the Bible draw us closer; From their side we'll never part.
Ever loyal to their guidance When our brothers take the lead.
When they give us clear direction, May our mind and heart give heed.
Then the blessing of Jehovah Will be ours to make us strong.
When we're loyal, ever faithful, To Jehovah we'll belong.
-
35
LeavingWT: Why Never Discuss Doctrine?
by InterestedOne inamong the various helpful pieces of advice i have read here from leavingwt, i have noticed that he often tells people to never discuss doctrine with a jw.
i realize that discussing doctrine with a jw can be very frustrating, but i was wondering if there is a more far-reaching and less-obvious reason for this advice.
like is it related to some peculiar aspect of the jw mind that the average person would not be aware of?.
-
-
InterestedOne
The JW wouldn't want to 'stumble' a person, with the end result being the outsider not joining, because of their actions/speech.
That reminds me of an experience I had at the KH. A woman talking to me was extremely worried about possibly offending me. She asked if I was a student at the local college (I've aged fairly gracefully), and I said no I'm 38. She was like Oh I'm so sorry, I didn't offend you did I? I said no of course not. She was like Are you sure? I'm so sorry if I offended you. I hope I didn't offend you. I was thinking to myself, "Chill out lady. It's not a big deal. I'm not offended in the slightest."
I can see how a doctrinal discussion that leads to a JW doctrine looking objectively nonsensical could upset the individual JW who is trying not to admit anything negative about the org for fear that the non-JW might not join.
-
10
Is it possible to believe in something you can't prove?
by Star tiger inthere is something i have always thought about, can anybody prove the existence of an benevelent god, who claims to love us but constantly proves to elusive, and is a matter of interpretation in the magic book, how can any of us puny humans know his ways, we only know how to procreate, live and eventually die, surely a truely loving father would protect his offspring , i'm thinking that maybe the god of the jehovah's witnesses is truely the demiurge the creator god and not the almighty father that knows all, why else would he be jealous?.
by the way i'm getting fed up with these arguments, and am thinking along the lines of a deist creator one creates and flies on, or even it doesn't exist and it's more of a panspermia thing!.
all the bible does is self validate itself, once you have bought into it, it's very tricky to get out, it's good there are sites like this!!!.
-
-
InterestedOne
I found Dawkins' letter to his 10-year old daughter to be helpful:
-
35
LeavingWT: Why Never Discuss Doctrine?
by InterestedOne inamong the various helpful pieces of advice i have read here from leavingwt, i have noticed that he often tells people to never discuss doctrine with a jw.
i realize that discussing doctrine with a jw can be very frustrating, but i was wondering if there is a more far-reaching and less-obvious reason for this advice.
like is it related to some peculiar aspect of the jw mind that the average person would not be aware of?.
-
-
InterestedOne
LeavingWT: I read Hassan's first book, but I haven't ordered the second. I found the first one to be enlightening especially on two key points: 1. Phobia indoctrination, and 2. Checking if a member is able to name the three things they like least about their organization. I think #2 is related to your first sentence which was:
You can discuss doctrine with a person who is free to think for himself.
I agree. If you and I are free thinkers, we can discuss doctrine, philosophy, theory vs. practice, etc. all day, but if one of us is under pressure to avoid saying anything negative about a particular ideology, our communication is handicapped.
Although it might seem that I already know some of the basics about this cult stuff, I am finding it helpful to unpack the phrase "never discuss doctrine." I was also wondering, apart from the cognitive dissonance problem, if there is any sort of written or unwritten rule in JW culture that relates to doctrinal discussions with a non-JW such as myself and their impact on the relationship between the non-JW and the JW - kind of like when a JW shares his/her doubts with fellow JW's, it starts him/her down a road to being shunned.
-
35
LeavingWT: Why Never Discuss Doctrine?
by InterestedOne inamong the various helpful pieces of advice i have read here from leavingwt, i have noticed that he often tells people to never discuss doctrine with a jw.
i realize that discussing doctrine with a jw can be very frustrating, but i was wondering if there is a more far-reaching and less-obvious reason for this advice.
like is it related to some peculiar aspect of the jw mind that the average person would not be aware of?.
-
-
InterestedOne
Among the various helpful pieces of advice I have read here from leavingwt, I have noticed that he often tells people to never discuss doctrine with a JW. I realize that discussing doctrine with a JW can be very frustrating, but I was wondering if there is a more far-reaching and less-obvious reason for this advice. Like is it related to some peculiar aspect of the JW mind that the average person would not be aware of?
For example, I know there are various JW booby traps like when the elders supposedly want to "talk," but leavingwt and others have accurately warned people not to take the bait b/c it could mean getting cut off. In my case, I learned the hard way that I probably should not have even done the JW bible study because now, in my JW acquaintance's mind, I should "know better" and I am almost like "bad association" or something like that.
I'm just wondering if someone could articulate the reasons why discussing doctrine with a JW is a mistake beyond the fact that it is frustrating.
-
29
Why are JW's so boring?
by howdidtihappen ini hung out with a group of jw's the other night for the first time outside going to kingdom hall, and the conversation was seriously limited.
do jw's just not want to talk about anything that regular people with a clue about something in the world get together to talk about, or are they really that boring due to the brainwashing?
it was astonishing.
-
-
InterestedOne
freeintime - I think there is a problem with posts showing up on this site with Internet Explorer. I use Firefox with no problem. Maybe try a different browser.
-
29
Why are JW's so boring?
by howdidtihappen ini hung out with a group of jw's the other night for the first time outside going to kingdom hall, and the conversation was seriously limited.
do jw's just not want to talk about anything that regular people with a clue about something in the world get together to talk about, or are they really that boring due to the brainwashing?
it was astonishing.
-
-
InterestedOne
One reason I think they are boring is that they paint all human societies, cultures, governments, etc. with a broad brush by referring to them as "this system of things." They consider this supposed "system" to be futile, doomed, and not worthy of their participation. Rather than participate, they choose to focus solely on preaching their religion, looking for people who might be receptive to it and join it.
For example, with politics, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they are taught not to express a definite opinion (other than to say it's all doomed and you should join their religion). The most they will do is acknowledge that politician X did such-and-such, and they will read the newspaper looking for topics to serve as conversation starters for their preaching. I think that after years of refusing to go through the mental process of attempting to form personal opinions, they become boring and unable to have stimulating discussions.
-
449
"Feeling sorry for yourself" about being hit by your husband is not Christian 2/15/12 WT Page 25 P 12
by yourmomma inhave anyone of you read, the absolutly jaw dropping paragraph in this article about a women who was hit by her husband?
its in page 25 of the 2/15/12 wt study edition (i read the dumbed down version).. .
if there was any question, that the watchtowers stance is for wives to simply take it when their husbands abuse them, this makes it crystal clear.. who the hell is scanning these things before they go to print?
-
-
InterestedOne
I'm curious what loyal JW's have to say about the article. How do they defend it?
-
56
"It's Ok to Lie"
by Azazel inmy turn on the soapbox.. .
well friends ive just gotton home from the special edition meeting, care of the enthusiastic circus overseer and what a great moral lesson his talk was tonight.. .
do you want to be a guest in god's tent?.
-
-
InterestedOne
The scripture is John 7:1-10. They also refer to it in the 2004 quote.