Retrovirus

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Posts by Retrovirus

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  151

  Introducing Myself

  by StandFirm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello to jwn!

  this is standfirm.

  i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.

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  Retrovirus

  Interesting!

  I like to practice defending my beliefs against opposing beliefs, voiced by whomever

  My own beliefs vary over time and are always available for adjustment, preferably by reality; possibly by logic. The beliefs of all religions I know also change over time, just not often as fast as jw beliefs.

  You replied to The Love Doctor

  The Bible in the case of disfellowshipping also does not make exceptions in the case of family members

  Where does the Bible say anything about disfellowshipping?
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  151

  Introducing Myself

  by StandFirm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello to jwn!

  this is standfirm.

  i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.

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  Retrovirus

  Hello and Welcome, StandFirm!

  I'm not a jw, but have had "bible studies" with some kind neighbors, which have left me with a lot of questions.

  Hopefully you will give me some answers!

  You write ...

  and my defenses the best they can be

  Whom or what do you need to defend against?

  Retro
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  42

  Today's WT Study Stupidity About Df'ing

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in today's watchtower study, towards the end, you had one of those typical comments by a former df'ed witness expressing appreciation for being shunned.

  these comments always remind me of a stalinist show trial in which the accused enthusiastically accepts being executed for the greater good (probably to save his family).. after this kind of nonsense is expressed, you will get a flurry of self righteous comments emphasizing how important it is to shun your disfellowshipped relatives, so that they can come back in the "truth".. oh, really?

  do any of these people raising their hand realize that, if the "success" of disfellowshipping depends on your shunning, then the "repentant" person is "coming back in the truth" for the sake of their relatives -and not because of fearing jehovah !!!???.

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  Retrovirus

  Welcome, Tracylee!

  (For background, I'm a non-jw, "failed" to make progress in the "bible study")

  A general question, if a jw must speak to someone in the course of their work, are they still obliged to shun? That would make for some bizarre scenarios, if, say, the jw was a doctor or emergency services. . Or if the "shunned" person was one of these. ..

  Does the wt allow no leeway at all for common sense?
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  33

  New light on NEW LIGHT

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  well, it just sort of came to me while i was driving.. the doctrine of new light is a false analogy.. why had i not considered this before?.

  here is what i'm thinking; see if you don't agree.... jehovah's witnesses are divided into three distinct tiers of membership.. 1.governing body anointed.

  2.clueless anointed.

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  Retrovirus

  This was my light-bulb moment for the day

  Jehovah's Witnesses are divided into three distinct tiers of membership.

  1.Governing Body anointed

  2.Clueless anointed

  3.The rest of the non-anointed schmucks

  Is that about right?

  Mr Flipper has explained this to me before, but I still had trouble believing it. The unbelievable arrogance of decreeing that all anointed not on the GB are clueless! And the R&F simply accept it. . .
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  13

  Can You Explain This? (Blood)

  by headisspinning in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don't understand why the wt puts so much time and effort into informing people about the intricacies of blood transfusions and fractions, but they don't really focus attention on the dietary side of not eating blood.

  because it was clearly a dietary restriction in the bible and maybe not so clearly in regard to blood transfusions (i'm still pondering this part).. is that ever discussed with bible studies or prior to baptism?

  it seems to me that if the command to 'abstain from blood' is so important that people will put their life on the line over it, then shouldn't very clear direction be spelling out in detail about what foods are okay to eat and what foods aren't?

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  Retrovirus

  Hi Headisspinning,

  I could be called a Christian, the group I belong to have similar beliefs to Unitarians.

  On the blood issue I'd just emphasise that blood transfusions were not known in Biblical times and therefore cannot be covered by what was or wasn't allowed then. When given intravenously, blood functions as an organ, and is not a food.

  I also agree with Pirata's point - What is more important; the symbol of life or life itself?

  So no, the WTs' complicated rules on blood fractions make no sense to me at all.

  Retro
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  38

  June 15th WT ( again ) WT Society Bashes College & Earning a Living

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry for the redundancy of this being the 3rd article out of this magazine i've made a thread on- but i felt it was important to share these quotes from the aricle titled " make your way successful - how ?

  " i think you'll see the extreme dissing of higher education here and guilt tactics used to discourage jw members from getting a college education or earning a decent living.. under the subheading " higher education " ?

  it states, " a christian has a scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs.

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  Retrovirus

  A Christian has a scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs. Still, does this really require a college or a university degree

  Really horrible. Effectively saying "you needn't help your children get any reasonable qualifications" Yet I'm sure there's no problem if you support them while they endlessly pioneer?

  Reminds me of my ex-MIL who had often been kept home from school to look after younger siblings - she did her very best to frustrate any career ambitions I had and guilt me if I put the kids into day care. This during the ex's bankruptcies!

  Yet another attempt to tether the next generation. And it won't work.
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  68

  June 15th WT - WT Society Pressures JW Parents to Indoctrinate Children

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a non-study article in the jw only watchtower is an article titled " should youths get baptized ?

  " the wt society is losing young people in very large numbers - so how else to try stemming the exodus than putting pressure on jw parents to indoctrinate and instill mind control into their children ?

  in one section here in this article it almost sounds like a version of " 20 questions " that the wt society asks parents to determine if their children are making " spiritual progress " as they phrase it.

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  Retrovirus

  Mr Flipper, that's terrible! What kind of religion presumes to come between a parent and children.

  But as a form of coercion, I doubt its long term success. Parents have threatened kids with "conform or lose out financially - free board, will etc" since forever and it's never been a good strategy; they lose the best ones who can make it on their own.

  The shunning is a far worse step; that the jws are never allowed to mend the bridges.

  Also just noticed the pic you pointed out of the babies "all born sinners" - wierd! Is that more of the "don't trust your heart, just follow whatever we say" stuff?

  I just devoutly hope that any lurkers reading will find it in their hearts not to shun anyone and most especially not their own family. And also that your daughter keeps in touch.

  Retro
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  68

  June 15th WT - WT Society Pressures JW Parents to Indoctrinate Children

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a non-study article in the jw only watchtower is an article titled " should youths get baptized ?

  " the wt society is losing young people in very large numbers - so how else to try stemming the exodus than putting pressure on jw parents to indoctrinate and instill mind control into their children ?

  in one section here in this article it almost sounds like a version of " 20 questions " that the wt society asks parents to determine if their children are making " spiritual progress " as they phrase it.

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  Retrovirus

  Ambersun wrote

  That illustration of a son being booted out of the front door into a world he is totally unprepared for (having been isolated from it all his life) with his belongings crammed into the rucksack on his back fills me with horror

  . . and as a mother, I feel it too.

  Perhaps they should have titled it "By this ye shall know them, the love they have for one another?

  The contradicitions astound me. . .
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  34

  If People Told you the JW's Would Change These Beliefs & Practices.....

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  would you have believed it ?

  ( i give credit to the poster password protected for giving me the idea of this thread ) .. after exiting the witnesses in 2003 i have noticed many changes within the wt society which really surprised me but after analyzing the changes - they really have convinced me the wt society and jehovah's witnesses are a mind control cult intent on ruling people's lives.

  here are some i have noticed that have changed :.

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  Retrovirus

  FHN

  Because there is one standard for new students and a completely different one for longer studied students and baptized witnesses.

  True. Yet even as a "student" I soon learned that questioning could quickly be redefined as "opposing".

  On topic - When my SIL first joined, over 25 years ago, there was still this sense of urgency, even excitement. (1975 plus however long it took to create Eve, maybe?)

  Now she and my jw ladies sound repetitive and, I think, defensive. They cannot explain the latest "generation" reaoning, but simply quote it from the magazine, There is still mention of "soon" and "final days" but it really lacks conviction. After assemblies there is a short burst of excitement and I get a few visits but it quickly fades.

  That's the main difference I see from the outside.
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  30

  HELP! How do I FADE without being DF'D??

  by doubtful in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm in a tough position.

  i gave my last talk as an ms a couple of weeks ago, and i haven't been out in field service in well over a month.

  i "came out" to the closest people in my life...namely my gf and mother...i was also recently asked to step down from being a servant - largely because my heart was no longer in it and i couldn't stomach going from door to door peddling magazines and other literature full of lies and logical fallacies.

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  Retrovirus

  Doubtful,

  First and most important, you are sick. Ulcers are a medical condition. Getting well is your first priority.

  Stress is clearly a part of your condition. This means you need to address it through counselling (properly qualified, objective counselling, not elders!) and whatever else works for you (meditation, relaxation, yoga, pills etc). Get referrals from your doctor.

  Would your mother accept advice from your doctor or counsellor that you should not be harassed into any discussions until your health improves?

  Do not make decisions about your religion or anything else important until you are confident that you are fit to do so.

  As a last resort if you are forced into a meeting, just thank them for their concern, say that you need to recover, can't discuss anything else right now. Thank them for your patience.

  Good luck and keep posting. We'll be here for you.

  Retro