Posts by Retrovirus

91

Open letter Re: Mr. Bowen, Mrs. Anderson

by Prime in

"jws leaders need to mandate elder bodies to uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction; prohibit elders from being involved in any investigative process to decide guilt or innocence in place of the authorities; do away with the two-witness rule to determine, as if they were magistrates, guilt or innocence of someone accused; prohibit so-called repentant molesters from engaging in the door-to-door ministry, and always inform the congregation if a convicted or confessed molester is meeting with them.

" -barbara anderson .

this is another reason why the watchtower society doesn't require that the elders uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction.

Retrovirus

It sounds like you're the conservative type (personal responsibility).
Once again, focussing on the messenger instead of addressing the issues.

Even the WTS notes that child abuse is under reported

Noting a problem to bemoan the sinfulness of Satan's world falls far short of contributing to its solution. Of course it's easier too.

From reading these posts, everyone is transparent except an elder. “Professionals applicable to child abuse reporting laws,” is to help things get reported. It's not to take the place of personal responsibility

Your problem with reading comprehension continues. No-one has said this. Many people in an evolved society have responsibilities (legal and moral) for helping minors and handicapped persons; these cannot be left entirely to the primary carers!

JW elders are not singled out here, nor do they or the wt merit a free pass.

Retro

91

Open letter Re: Mr. Bowen, Mrs. Anderson

by Prime in

"jws leaders need to mandate elder bodies to uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction; prohibit elders from being involved in any investigative process to decide guilt or innocence in place of the authorities; do away with the two-witness rule to determine, as if they were magistrates, guilt or innocence of someone accused; prohibit so-called repentant molesters from engaging in the door-to-door ministry, and always inform the congregation if a convicted or confessed molester is meeting with them.

" -barbara anderson .

this is another reason why the watchtower society doesn't require that the elders uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction.

Retrovirus

Prime writes

I believe that every instance of abuse as well other crimes should be reported to the authorities whether it's the law or not. If you're a hearsay witness, you're potentially being used for something illegal.

I don't understand the last sentence. How can you be "used for something illegal" by reporting probable abuse or other crime to appropriate authorities?

Now, spreading such information to other, non-authorised persons or organisations - such as wt headquarters or legal department - that could lead to defamation procedures!

91

Open letter Re: Mr. Bowen, Mrs. Anderson

by Prime in

"jws leaders need to mandate elder bodies to uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction; prohibit elders from being involved in any investigative process to decide guilt or innocence in place of the authorities; do away with the two-witness rule to determine, as if they were magistrates, guilt or innocence of someone accused; prohibit so-called repentant molesters from engaging in the door-to-door ministry, and always inform the congregation if a convicted or confessed molester is meeting with them.

" -barbara anderson .

this is another reason why the watchtower society doesn't require that the elders uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction.

Retrovirus

That's what I believe. That's why most JWs hardly ever come near places like this forum. Too much negativity and blind hatred

Nothing to do with being forbidden to, then?

Retro

91

Open letter Re: Mr. Bowen, Mrs. Anderson

by Prime in

"jws leaders need to mandate elder bodies to uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction; prohibit elders from being involved in any investigative process to decide guilt or innocence in place of the authorities; do away with the two-witness rule to determine, as if they were magistrates, guilt or innocence of someone accused; prohibit so-called repentant molesters from engaging in the door-to-door ministry, and always inform the congregation if a convicted or confessed molester is meeting with them.

" -barbara anderson .

this is another reason why the watchtower society doesn't require that the elders uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction.

Retrovirus

From a "worldly" perspective

If a person wants to exploit the door-to-door ministry to commit a crime, they won't meet with the service group

This is nonsense. If a paedophile wanted a safe cover to seek out children alone in the house, what would be better? He/She wouldn't need to assault or groom them right away, but could return at any time.

Even if a person is disfellowshipped, they can still go door-to-door.

Of course they can, but not as "ministers" of the jw religion.

@Odrade, yes, that was the first thing I noticed too. "This woman" indeed

Retro

51

Symposium with a talk about "Human Apostates"

by Prime in

"there is a symposium with a talk about "human apostates" that is very slanderous and defamatory and has the ex-jw blogosphere up in arms over it.".

if a person doesn't fit the description outlined in this talk, the talk isn't referring to you.. .

.

Retrovirus

@Prime, you posted

Few or many, there are individuals that have done things described in the talk.

"For instance, in one country a news report instigated by apostates falsely stated that Jehovah’s witnesses supported Hitler’s regime during world war two."

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/hitler-nazi.php

Can you point to to where this article alleges that Jehovah's witnesses supported Hitler's regime?

Thanks, Retro

27

Making the Jehovah's Witnesses OWN THEIR OWN EVIL

by Terry in

drunkards often scape-goat responsibility onto their drinking--as though it were morally defensible to cause accidents or death!.

serial drinking and driving is a plague on highways across the world.

drunkeness has been labeled as a "disease" and it isn't unusual.

Retrovirus

Hi Terry,

From your post above

I believe that being a Jehovah's Witness who had 100% believed that Armageddon was happening in 1975 destroyed my wife when NOTHING happened and the Society went silent for sooooo loooong

Yet your OP suggests that we are all - alcoholics, culties, ets, - responsible for the harm we do. So was your wife responsible, or the WT? Or both?

Also what aout a non-indoctrinated person approached by a jw, often at a low point in their life. Don't they also have a responsibility for researching the religion rather than drifting along with the love bombing?

(BTW, well done from another single parent)

Retro

54

Was I too harsh?

by chrisuk in

jw
friends

hello, first let me apologixe for both my spelling and my grammer in advance, both are not my strong points.. i'll keep this short.

since i've been a child my mother has studied on and off with jw's ( i'm now 34) so i've been around it most of my life, i studied on and off myself for around 10 years.

thank's to this site and jwfacts i'll never study or step foot inside a kingdom hall again.

Retrovirus

Welcome from another non-jw, Chrisuk!

Now all I've got to do is help my mom see this religion for what it is.

Wish you all success with that, but please go carefully. If the Borg can't capture you the next objective will be to drive a wedge between your mom and bad, worldly associations. I speak from experience.

all the best, Retro

33

My response to any one who asks why I am fading

by Skinnedsheep in

jw
friends

i have thought a lot about what to say when i am approached.

it will kill my fade, but oh well.. "after the new light i had to test my faith and i couldn't prove to myself that the slave was limited to the governing body.".

if cornered by an elder...."can you prove to me from the scriptures that matt.

Retrovirus

Welcome This_suit_doesnt_fit!

Dont worry about the contradiction in saying you are ill or depressed and acting positive & upbeat, they will not notice. They arent really paying any attention to you

That's a very good obersevation,and I look forward to more of your posts. Perhaps you could start a new topic and tell a bit about your circumstances?

Retro

11

Crisis of Conscience and the preaching work with WT literature

by losingit in

"it is interesting to contrast the deliberate elimination of prayers andsongs at witness meetings in mexico with the action of the watchtower society in the united states, where they were willing to fightcase after case all the way up to the supreme court of the countryrather than give up certain practices, such as offering literature fromdoor to door without a license and without having to register withthe police, the right to use sound cars, distribute literature on streetcorners, and many other such practices which are covered byconstitutional rights.

the organization did not want to relinquish anyof these things.

it fought to hold on to them, even though theseparticular practices are certainly not things that were done by earlychristians in the first century and hence cannot be counted as amongprimary christian practices.".

Retrovirus

Hi Losingit, you might like to check out the threads on Mr Unthank's battle with the WT in Australia.

Here is a good start.

To summarise, in Victoria we have a legal requirement that all whose work may involve children, paid or voluntary, must carry a current card to show that their record is clear of molestation and related offences. Of course, jws may well engage with children in their "ministry", but very few if any carry the WWT card.

In its defence the wt claimed

1. the "faithful and discreet slave is not a legal entity"

2. The "ministry" is a personal and voluntary choice by the individual

Surely only an organisation focused on profit can be so blatently dishonest.

Retro

287

What about your vow to Jehovah?

by a watcher in

did you get baptized without being dedicated?.

why did you allow men to come between you and jehovah?.

why were you serving jehovah at all?

Retrovirus

A Watcher, good on you for staying with this thread and not doing a runner :)

Retro, what has the GB taught me that I couldn't have learned from the Bible?

Well, the first thing that comes to mind are the prophecies of Revelation: the great tribulation, the wild beasts, Babylon the Great, Har-Magedon, the millenium.

I would have never understood these things if the GB had not explained them to me.

Can I ask, why are you sure you understand them now? If the GB changes it's collective mind about Revelation next week, will you also "understand" the new explanation? Has any real thing substantiated the interpretation of the GB (past or present), or are you just comfortable with it?

Retro