i was informed by a witness that there was a "wonderful talk" at the sad this week.
it was about a clear conscience as opposed to a clean conscience.
a clear conscience is no proof of god's approval because one my not feel condemned by thier actions due to a faulty perspective.
A CLEAR conscience is no proof of God's approval because one my not feel condemned by thier actions due to a faulty perspective.
Another "don't rely on your own conscience/principles/logic; just obey". I was initially shocked when my jw SIL told me a conscience was of no value unless it was "bible-trained", which I now understand to be wt-trained.
Cult
Retro
my wife and i were discussing this and thought of a few examples of words that the wt society changes meanings on in order to accomplish their own self serving agenda .
the term - generation - definition in webster's new world dictionary : " generation - a single stage or degree in the succession of natural descent ( father, son, and grandson are three generations ) .
the average period ( about thirty years ) between the birth of one generation and that of the next .
"STUDY" as with Watchtower and Bible. We all know it isn't a BIBLE study, but answering set questions from the material is not "study" in the accepted sense either.
i just learned that an 11 year old kid is taking the questions for baptism.
as soon as his father finished tellig me this, i told him that he should make his son wait, but he responded that he couldn't go against jehovah' spirit.
i gave the guy a break because he is the uneducated and naive immigrant who puts his heart, not his mind, into the religion.
From Gojira's post
I was 10, and now I wish I never had been baptized!!!! I had extreme pressure from people.
That to me is the problem with the elder's repsonse. He knows very well that there is heavy pressure within the JW cong, and he knows that this is fuelled with warnings and exhortations in the study articles and conventions. Yet he presents the child's willingness to take the questions as a holy impulse from YHWH that mere men may not interfere with.
More than disingenious; dishonest.
Retro
hi, my time is drawing ever closer as i can no longer speak lies about the organization and all the past revisions and my sins i committed against everyone i judged while serving on judicial committees.
i lay awake at night with guilt because i ask jehovah and his son jesus christ to forgive me for being so judgemental, self assured and arrogant at certain times in my life.
i was not a prince of peace, at times i was a coward when i was first appointed because i wanted to keep all things peaceful with my peers, not with my heavenly father and saviour jesus christ.
ArbolesdoArabia
the ones I meet are not comforters, they are more like Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar of Job's story
I was a study but not a jw, but that did match my experience. The study givers and elders demanded authority over me; I had to agree with them and accept them as wiser and more spiritial or the love bombing stopped. Even as I realised this it was hard to quietly maintain my position and logic against the onslaught. I feel for you.
How bad would it look if I let them DF me and refused to respond to any questions they are currently researching about Me and what I am accused of?
I fear that your reasoned responses to their questions will look bad to them too . In the end, you need to focus on doing what is right for you.
Retro
hi, my time is drawing ever closer as i can no longer speak lies about the organization and all the past revisions and my sins i committed against everyone i judged while serving on judicial committees.
i lay awake at night with guilt because i ask jehovah and his son jesus christ to forgive me for being so judgemental, self assured and arrogant at certain times in my life.
i was not a prince of peace, at times i was a coward when i was first appointed because i wanted to keep all things peaceful with my peers, not with my heavenly father and saviour jesus christ.
Hi,
I am so pissed off and full of rage, please advise me!
You have good cause to be angry. Yet anger will not help you to get the outcome you want.
Consider carefully: first where you want this to go. Do you want to fade or to go out with a bang? JC or no JC? What you say (and hopefully record will give you some satisfaction, but from all I've read, the elders will simply label it all "satanic" and stay with their chosen beliefs.
If you do go the JC way, prepare 2 or 3 main points and research them very carefully. If possible get someone to practice role-playing. The hardest will be to keep the elders from shouting you down, changing the subject, vilifying your sources, anything but addressing the points logically. It is so very difficult to maintain a polite and logical position against numbers and men who think they have authority.
I wish you all the best.
Retro
so after the memorial hell http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/249700/1/memorial-hell my wife totally missed the special talk and i only just realized from jwn that she has.
in fact last sunday i took her out to a park and we had nice time in the fresh air enjoying nature.
also she has taken up improving her congnitive skills on luminosity and today said she might actaully go and study some algebra on khan academy which i had suggested instead of spending money on luminosity.
Perhaps print out a list of logical fallacies? Ask her to help you spot them in advertisements, newspapers etc. Surely in time she won't be able to miss the fallacies she hears in meetings and sees in the wt publications? She sounds like a smart person.
... can you name that the wts hurts people?.
two big ones for me:.
it pushes people to the edge and when they commit suicide they say: "well he wasn't really a jw anyways soit has nothing to do with us".. it pushes people so much to do more and more and more that they get depressed, and physically sick.
By trashing higher education. The financial hurts are obvious, but also the loss of vocabulary, reasoning skills and the delight of the symmetry of numbers ; the awesomeness of biology.
first post, been lurking for a bit.
i have been seeing problems in the org for a couple of years now and could not come up with any answers.
recently i researched the topics of mediator and new covenant and thats when the sh8t hit the fan.
Welcome, Crazyguy
What everyone else said. Also, from and old post by Bluesbrother, this might help:
*
w8811/1pp.22-23WhenMaritalPeaceIsThreatened***Absoluteendangermentofspirituality also provides a basis for separation. The believer in a religiously divided home should do everything possible to take advantage of God?s spiritual provisions. But separation is allowable if an unbelieving mate?s opposition (perhaps including physical restraint) makes it genuinely impossible to pursue true worship and actually imperils the believer?s spirituality. Yet, what if a very unhealthy spiritual state exists where both mates are believers? The elders should render assistance, but especially should the baptized husband work diligently to remedy the situation. Of course, if a baptized marriage partner acts like an apostate and tries to prevent his mate from serving Jehovah, the elders should handle matters according to the Scriptures. If disfellowshipping takes place in a case involving absolute endangerment of spirituality, willful nonsupport, or extreme physical abuse, the faithful Christian who seeks a legal separation would not be going against Paul?s counsel about taking a believer to court.?1 Corinthians 6:1-8.If circumstances are extreme, then, separation may be warranted. But flimsy pretexts obviously should not be used to obtain a separation. Any Christians who do separate must bear personal responsibility for that action and should realize that all of us will render an account to Jehovah.?Hebrews 4:13.
So, stand your ground. Especially if you backpedal, the circumstances are not extreme. You are still the spiritual head of the household. Then, rebuild bridges with your wife, read a lot here and the Steven Hassan books and try again . . .later . .. softly. . .carefully.
Best wishes, Retro
Did anyone else see the list of articles in the tract? One is "How to end the Silent treatment" Do they ever listen to themselves?
so i started working at my new job in december.
there is one person in my department who is a jw.
then there is another jw who works in my building, who just started going to my old hall about 6 months ago.
"That's funny, because it mostly people in (name of area) that deterred you."
Amazing. Not even a question, he's telling you why you were 'deterred'
Perhaps you could reply with something like "you may have been misinformed".
Retro
