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Don't forget about Caleb, his emotional vampire mother, fear-mongering dad and the hero Sparlock!
...or the ASL wanking video going viral!
...or the attention from Anonymous!
...or the ABC "Longo" episode!
...or the new GB member who still has some baby fat!
2012 has been a PR disaster.
i'm curious.
(true in both senses).
when i was a child i used to hope celebrities i liked (or wanted to boink) died before armageddon.
I really liked a worldy neighbor boy before I started Kindergarten. He was one of my only non-JW friends outside of cousins. I remember asking my mom while she was doing chores, "Hey, if everyone gets resurrected, why can't I just kill Billy so he'll be in the new system with us?"
The only reason I remember this so well is because of my mom's reaction. She gasped in horror. Perhaps she realized how screwed up that sounded, so she showed me all the nice gory pictures of the bad men Enoch had to face in the Bible Stories book and explained that "Jehovah hates killing so we should never do it." Needless to say, I felt profound guilt about my question and wondered if mom thought I was a "wicked" person like the ones in the pictures.
I do recall many occasions when someone I really hated died and I was mad that I'd have to spend eternity with them in the New Order lol.
a year ago i started looking heavily into "apostate" websites ,now after a year i'm convinced that i have been lied to and kept in the dark for so long .i hate going to the meetings having to cope with these disgusting watchtower articles .unfortunatelly my family are still in wife and kids and i have raised them to be good witnesses .i feel betrayed by the watchtower and i'm sure if it wasn't for these evil men in brooklyn 99% of all witnesses that wake up would not have an issue changing all the wrong doctrines .these satanic men who dare call themselves "anointed " have spend almost 40 years, especially since they changed the baptismal vows and after raymond franz's exit ,creating a "prison of the mind" ,if anyone wants to leave they have to kiss goodbye friends ,family and start all over again .what shall i do stay in and try to work against them or leave?
any advice will be appreciated.
Ray...
Everyone's situation is unique. It's taken me about 7 years to come to terms with it all. It wasn't until a few months ago that I finally explained my doubts to relatives who are still in. They took it surprisingly well, but it's obvious that our relationship has a tension that was not there before. Your situation is a little more critical because you have a wife and children--kids you say have been raised in JWdom by you. Discovering their dad is an evil "apostate" could really freak the kids out! So go easy on them if you decide to exit. Even if your wife's mind is eventually opened, think about the kids' reactions to suddenly not going to meetings anymore. Even celebrating holidays could trip 'em out if they're still dealing with that heavy indoctrination.
My fade was successfull because I relocated. I moved to another state and had my cards transferred. No one knows me in the new area. I've never shown up or been contacted. People in my old state just assume everything is fine when I visit. If you carefully bring this information to your wife, she may just start confessing her own doubts to you! She will discern that something is going on if you try to keep this bottled up.
I suggest you bring up doubts at the next family study night after you send your kids to bed. Just confide in her that you can sense something is wrong. A powerful way for you to drive home the point would be to summarize all the new light that's been published since 2010, especially the overlapping generation and the skyrocketing increase of partakers. Say something like, "Honey... 1914 was 99 years ago... they obviously know something isn't right and they're going to have to change doctrine very soon. In fact, I bet you $20 they redefine the term "faithful and discreet slave" to consolidate power and detract from the partakers claiming to be newly anointed." Likely, SHE hasn't heard about the Annual Meeting fiasco. In a few months, when those changes are published, show her and remind her about what you predicted. That's worked for me a few times with friends who are still inside. I've helped 5 people FADE by "predicting" changes that I knew were coming after seeing the leaked information on this forum! Let HER make the observations on her own. If you get her on board, MOVE. Change halls, have your cards sent elsewhere and just fade. If you all decide this isn't for you and you remain where you are, I can't imagine a fade working very well. People already know where you are and will notice when your activity becomes less visible.
Summarizing:
1) in a very subtle way, feel out your wife's thoughts and feelings on JW/WBTS before making any statements
2) raise your concerns to her
3) make a "prediction" and then remind her when "new light" is made public
4) if she's persuaded, discuss the option of relocating unless you decide DA or a local fade are better options
5) have a heart-to-heart STUDY with your kids explaining why mommy and daddy are doing the unthinkable.
If she objects to your initial disclosure, back off!!! You don't want to destroy your marriage and household stability! Keep us updated, will ya?
was jesus invisibly present in 1914?.
at this point, some may ask, what exactly are, the appointed times of the nations?
notice from the words of jesus, this trampling first began at the murder of abel by his brother cain, who was the, 'seed of satan the devil.
No.
long time lurker, first time poster.. .
i'm an ms (accounts servant) in a large congregation in canada.
over the last several years i've faught a hard-won battle to rid my mind of all religous and supernatural beleifs.
There is no way I'm going to read all 28 pages in this thread, but I do have a question for Sabastious:
Are you saying you believe that Moses, Jesus and other bible personalities actually existed? Or are you just saying that their messages are still important and relevant for the human race?
I'm only asking because once I started researching the bible through scholars and historians, I discovered a lot of important proofs that show the bible is mostly a book of plagiarism from other mythologies. Where do you stand on the argument of bible authenticity? (I'm sure it's somewhere in this thread, but hey--football!) I'll check back later or you may PM me.
i don't believe the bible is inerrant nor do i hold a 'christian worldview' any longer as my profile details say (which i am unable to update on my profile), but i just can't see how anyone can be absolutely 100% confident there is nothing out there we can call a 'god' or spirit creature in the face of endless first-hand accounts of paranormal and occult experiences that felt as 'real' to the person who experienced them as anything else in their lives.. there are untold reports of ghosts, faith-healing, ouija boards, seances, spirit mediums, stigmata, mystical born-again experiences, speaking in tongues, and then there's hypnotism, ufo sightings, poltergeists, remote viewing, etc, etc.
ok, so its mostly only anecdotal evidence, but the amount of it is so overwhelming it is practically corroborating evidence.
in the face of all this, how can anyone categorically assert that there is nothing out there that is beyond ourselves that we might call a 'god' or spirit creature?
These stories always grow in the telling. When I was still inside, one of my favorite past times was sharing "demun stories" with all my JW friends. Sure, mysterious things happened all the time, but the human brain is remarkably deceptive. And I'll admit, when things happened (and at the time, I wasn't such a skeptic so I believed some of these experiences were real evidence of demons), I would "flavor" my story every time I retold it to another person. After awhile, I even started believing my own embellishments! So yes...I am guilty as charged for not only believing and embellishing, but actively convincing others of these accounts.
George Costanza said it best: "It's not a lie... if you believe it."
Thanks to Snare&Racket for bringing up James Randi's $1M prize. Every day that prize goes unclaimed is another powerful piece of evidence that there's just no such thing as the supernatural.
Sidenote: It did always seem kind of ironic to me just how much fear JWs had of demons and how much emphasis they put on their apparent powers and ability to interact physically in your life. They could scare the crap out of you with stories and warnings from WT but never had a problem explaining their way out of why angelic or godly intervention doesn't happen in modern times. If anything, for current JWs, demons offer more proof of the supernatural than jah ever does! Think about it: at one point in history, god supposedly parted the Red Sea, led by pillars of fire and cloud, maintained a constant ambient source of "spiritual glory" inside the most holy room of the tabernacle, but nothing like that occurs today because the mere existence of the WBTS supplies all the "proof" that we should need. Evidence of god and holy spirit is only manifested by this amazing global organization and its works of dispensing food. Meanwhile, demons make smurfs walk out of Kingdom Halls and garage sale items can strangle elders' wives during the night? But, the Revelation book says demons are currently in "Tarturus" so they can't be as powerful as they were in Noah's day? Yet they can still haunt your house and inanimate objects. Whatever.
one of greatest obstacles to leaving the organization is the destruction of the family unit.
as lady-lee wrote about oompa, i thought of this topic, the society says "this is their way to get wrong doing people to return to the loving arms of jehovah after they repent of their sins" .
i know of men and women who are in good standings and hate their fellow spiritual jw family, i am willing to bet, wager that "jw-hatred" exceeds the worlds hatred, something about a self-assured group versus the "not so self assured' creates one plucked up structure.
I have frequent nightmares about this very situation. In fact, I took a late morning nap and woke up from one and it's put a damper on my entire day. I'm not so much afraid of them shunning me. I'm afraid of watching them get hurt and knowing that I am responsible for their pain. They're great people. They don't deserve the extra heartache. It's not my interest to expose TTATT to them because, even though I know it's all a farce, this really is all they have in their lives!
soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.
soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.
anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.
What's new in the world of Anonymous? Has anything developed or did this just fizzle?
.
well i say the same condition for life evolving are relatively repeated over and over again in perhpas billions of solar systems with different combinations of chemical reactions producing all kind of self replicating molecules not just carbon based or dna based.
many stars having a much earlier formation and intelligent life much more before our earth was formed billions of years ago.. .
I love you, wikipedia!
where:
and
.
well i say the same condition for life evolving are relatively repeated over and over again in perhpas billions of solar systems with different combinations of chemical reactions producing all kind of self replicating molecules not just carbon based or dna based.
many stars having a much earlier formation and intelligent life much more before our earth was formed billions of years ago.. .
