Posts by Liberty

48

Is the NWT really the most accurate translation of the Bible?

by godsgurl in

i have heard jw claim that the nwt is the most accurate translation of the bible and the persons who translated the bible were inspired by the holy spirit.

but if this is so then why was the nwt revised so many times?

did the holy spirit get it wrong the first time?

Liberty

Terry did a very good job of explaining why there will never be an "absolutely accurate" or "Best" Bible translation and I don't want to be redundant but I can't see how some of you don't get what Terry was saying.

If I am a brilliant medical doctor and I write a medical text book of my vital truths which will save lives and I am still alive I have a vested interest in and a responsability to making sure it is never mistranslated, used out of context, or falsly interpreted. Living authors do just that and are seen as the final authority on their works. God is believed by many to still exist and it is believed by many that He revealed His vital Truths in the Bible through the direct inspiration of its writers so He has a vested interest in making sure it is never mistranslated, used out of context, or falsly interpreted and yet even with His great powers of omnipotentcy and omniscience He has failed miserably on every count and His "vital" message is lost in confusion among 1000 different fighting sects and He does nothing to correct it.

If we are left with the confusing turd which is our modern Bible here is your first clue that either God doesn't care or, more likely, just doesn't exist and in either case there is obviously no "urgent life-saving information" there. Vital information would have been clarified and authorized by God, and not been left to a bunch of idiotic shaved apes to figure out for themselves.

29

Do Witnesses Care About Chronology Anymore?

by minimus in

jw
friends

let's say christ threw the devil out in 1914, so what?

does 1914 have any real signifance to a jehovah's witness anymore?

all i can see is that "this proves we're living in the last days of the last days".

Liberty

I think if you went back in time to around 1970 JWs cared alot more about chronology since so many of the Society's (really F. Franz's) self-made timed puzzle pieces were coming together so beautifully and matched the doomsaying brought on by the worldly press and pop culture due to the tumultious changes of the 1960's.

This began to change as 1975 came and went without even being lucky enough to be of any significance what so ever (at least, by sheer coincidence, 1914 had marked the start of a world war). As 1975 receeded ever further into non-history the enthusiasm of JWs for chronology began to wane slowly.

With the death of F. Franz and the significance of his beloved 1914 Generation being changed in 1995 the chronology issue was quietly deflated. Without F. Franz's "creative" but now time expired interpretations to give urgency to the JW community and with no replacement imaginative Bible "scholar" to step up to replace F. Franz the "End" becomes a more abstract event undefined and basically limitless.

14

This is what kept me from moving on a long time

by the_end_of_eternity in

pascal's bet.

so it follows that if you believe in god, you gain all, or it is neutral.

on the other then, when you do not believe in god, you loose everything or it is neutral.

Liberty

This Pascal's wager thing never made any sense to me anyway. If God is omniscient He would know you were just believing as a technicality, hedging your bet... so wouldn't you be worse off than an honest nonbeliever when it came to being judged?

I never understood how one can "make" themselves believe anything at all. If I don't believe in bigfoot I can't will myself into believing. You either believe or you don't. I can say anything but as far as I know I cannot will myself to really believe in something which I think isn't true because somewhere in my mind I will know it is not true. I came to a point in my life when I just no longer believed in God and try as I might I couldn't change this through an act of will power.

Even "worldly" governments punish people more harshly when you swear an alligiance or pledge loyalty and then by your actions you reveal that it was not heartfelt. For example an enemy soldier sworn to fight as your enemy is usually just captured and imprisoned while a soldier who betrays his own country is quickly executed or even tortured for his deception and disloyalty. At least you can respect your honest opposition's position...you know where they stand as opposed to a faker who is willing to say anything just to hedge their bets.

I'd honestly rather face God as my truthful self and just be wrong instead of facing Him as a liar who thought I could outsmart/trick Him.

21

I know I'm slow, but help me out on this new 144k thing-ie

by dawg in

ok, so the may 1st wt says that elders aren't to question anyone who partakes.

but many of you have posted that they are about to rule change about the 144k... haven't they already changed the dogma if elders can't question... doesn't that mean anyone can partake?

so what changes are going to occur that are more shocking then the generation of 1935 thing and whatnot?.

Liberty

I just did a simple rough calculation based on a percentage of the well accepted "anointed" in our congregation and it came out to 360,000 (6% multiplyed by 6,000,000 JWs) even if I'm way off it is clear that there is way too many to make any sense. If a percentage of the crazies who aren't viewed as real had just a small amount of real ones it would be off the scale when added to these other numbers and if the big "A" is postponed another 100 years it just gets even sillier. Since the big "A" is really never coming the numbers will be off the scale as time goes on.

Even if the percentage changed over time I did a 5% at only 4,000,000 and still came out with 200,000...just silly

21

I know I'm slow, but help me out on this new 144k thing-ie

by dawg in

ok, so the may 1st wt says that elders aren't to question anyone who partakes.

but many of you have posted that they are about to rule change about the 144k... haven't they already changed the dogma if elders can't question... doesn't that mean anyone can partake?

so what changes are going to occur that are more shocking then the generation of 1935 thing and whatnot?.

Liberty

It's not you dawg, how could any reasonable person keep up with these idiotic Watch Tower flashes of "New Light".

Complete and utter nonsense no matter how you slice it.

First off, there couldn't possibly be any room left now days even if we accepted that the 144,000 was a literal number and bought into the Society's definition. This number would have been filled years ago since Christianity has been around for over 2000 years and out of the millions of believers who were tortured, maimed, and killed for their beliefs I'm not sure why so many modern people who have never faced any persecution worse than a verbal rebuke in the door to door work would be chosen for such an elite club. Also, since so many died horrible and painful deaths and remained faithful to the end how could they need replacing? Even if ol' Jahoobie spaced out the choosing over time why would there be such a huge number chosen in the last 100 years?

As I understand it, the reason that the "earthly hope class (Great Crowd)" was "revealed" is because the Bible Students/JWs began to exceed 144,000 back in the mid 1930's so the Society wasn't even counting the 1st century christians (like original Apostles) and they still exceeeded the number with just 20th century members and had to invent a new class to accomadate them all. Thousands of JW defined "anointed" have already died. We had 5 or 6 of these ancient faithfuls in our small congregation (around 115 members) back in the 1960-70s so multiply that times all the congregations and you are already pushing the envelope not to mention the 8,000 plus still alive. Even if most of them needed replacing it doesn't say much for ol' Jahoobie's ability to read hearts. It just doesn't add up and is more proof that the whole foundation of JW cosmology is pure crap.

10

Dr. Evil and World Domination....Serious Post Actually

by oompa in

the insight book says:.

the events that took place from and after the year 1914 c.e.

are well-known history to all, beginning with the great war that erupted, the first world war in mankinds history and the first to be fought over the issue, not of the domination of europe alone, nor of africa, nor of asia, but of thedominationoftheworld.lu 21:7-33; re 11:15-18; see last days; presence.

Liberty

You are soooo right to be skeptical of this claim oompa. Many historians consider the Napoleononic conflicts of the early 1800's to be the real "first world war". Most of the participants that were involved in these wars are the same as the official WWI except for their alliance changes. The Mongals were also certainly interested in world domination and perhaps even killed more people than those killed in WWI.

The concept of 1914 being a "world turning point" date is really unique to the Watch Tower Society and reveals the limited and outdated view of the creator of this concept for the JWs, namely Fred Franz, who was stuck in and obsessed with his own Generation's life and times (the now extinct 1914 Generation). WWII is a far better "world turning point" and would make a far better starting point for any "End Times" prophecy fulfillment if we were inclined to believe in such nonsense. WWII makes WWI look like a rough brawl by comparison in the conext of sheer brutality, deaths, civilian victims, and mass destruction, not to mention the invention and use of nuclear weapons which were for the first time really capable of some world wide effect.

34

Is agnostic different from athiest? How so?

by wanderlustguy in

i know the answer, because i am agnostic.

it is strange to me that people assume if you say you are agnostic that it means you don't believe in god.

from wiki.... agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of god or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge.

Liberty

By every meaningful definition of God (omnipotent, omniscient) I would have to say I am an anti-theist since the universe is too chaotic and full of horrors for there to be an omnipotent and omniscient creator super being who would not be totally evil and insane. I would be against such a being even if it existed and would happily let it destroy me rather than bend to its crazed will. I am 100% convinced that no such being exists and have no wish for such a thing to be true, hence, an anti-theist.

Does that mean I would discount the possibility of higher beings existing somewhere in the universe? Certainly not. I would just say that they will not be omnipotent and omniscient creators of the universe and hence not Gods as most western modern people would define them.

All my research and studies in various fields has led me to conclude that the Bible is wholly man made and Christianity is as false as Islam, JWism, and Mormonism. Completely made up nonsense by my fellow human beings.

16

Do you think that JW's will ever get rid of the "1914" doctrine?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

with the year 2014 only 7 years away what are jw's leaders going to say if armaggeddon is not here by then?

how many more changes will have to take place in order for them to keep jw's loyal to the wt society?

my mom just celebrated her 78th birthday on sept 9 and she got baptized in 1967 believing armaggeddon was coming in 1975. i just cry when i think of the elderly jw's that gave their whole lives for the wt believing that armaggeddon was around the corner.

Liberty

I think they effectively already did get rid of it in 1995. Since then the "Generation" has been described as any one who does not recognize that Jesus has been enthroned. They changed the entire meaning shifting it from old faithful believers who lived during that time to it now being any and all worldly sinners who fail to recognize the authority of the Watch Tower Society(the physical manifestation of Christ's enthronement). There will never be a shortage of wordly unbelievers so they are safe for years to come.

Since the doctrine it is now primarily applied to "worldly sinners" I think it is off the radar screen for most JWs. They have been letting it slowly fade away using this confusing change to shift it into obscurity along with 6000 year creative days, the organ transplant ban,and the physical heart as the seat of emotions and spirituality they have now abandoned.

Most new convert JWs (past 10 years) never even think about the fact that Jesus has been a do-nothing king for well over 90 years now. All they know is that the WT Society is "very active in the Kingdom work" which proves Christ is enthroned so they don't think about the time involved beyond their own limited lifetimes.

93

Climate: Natural disasters

by hibiscusfire in

i live in the tropics so we experience hot and rainy weather.

where i live the sun is very hot at this time that your skin feel as though it's on fire.

i have never experienced snow.

Liberty

You must be pulling our legs and yanking our chains hibiscusfire? No one is really this dim-witted, surely? Your seeming lack of any basic scientific knowledge (whether you believed in it or not) is just flat out unbelievable. Where were you educated? I knew more about science I didn't believe in as a 12 year old JW than you do as an adult nonJW. I am assuming you are an adult.

You can't really be this scientifically uninformed and yet be so confident in your ignorance? If this isn't a put on then I don't even know where to start. For example, I have a basic working knowledge of Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology even though I don't believe a word of it is true because it is a part of our culture so surely you know some science even if you don't believe in it? I can talk with some working knowledge about these mythologies and debate their merits while your postings are so idiotic that there isn't even a basis for debate.

Please tell me you are just putting us on.

25

Inconsistency in Placing Blame?

by Mum in

i was just reading something about the story in genesis about the angels leaving heaven to mate with earthly women.

does anyone else find it peculiar that the watchtower places no blame on the women?

in the wt world, it is always the less powerful who bears the primary burden of guilt except in this one case.. for example, didn't someone post a wt form which asks an applicant about pedophile practices and then asks if the child did anything to provoke the assault?

Liberty

Does the Watch Tower Society accept the book of Enoch as an inspired part of the "real Bible"? If not, then thier extra-biblical speculations on the "sons of God" story's meaning is even worse. Not that the story makes any logical sense no matter how you slice it anyway.