As far as the vast majority of the world's population goes the JWs have about the same impact as a fart in a hurricane. This was one of many shocks I had when emerging from this cult of self-delusion. As so many have already expressed, the JW cosmology is so esoteric and complex that even most JWs don't understand what they believe in, let alone the public at large. The JW preaching work is a complete failure by any measure. Most of their "theocratic" stratagey was concieved in the 1930's as an enrichment scheme for one man, Judge Rutherford, and it is still stuck there in time. They don't even bother to update the methods used to spread "this life saving" message.Going door to door in an age where both parents work and the kids are at school or day care is a clear waste of time and yet they are still doing it. Their own belief in their self-importance is as delusional as their belief that Armageddon is right around the corner.....if the corner is 120+ years around. They are seen for just what they are, religious nuts crying wolf over and over again to the point where no one is listening.
Liberty
JoinedPosts by Liberty
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51
Do Jehovah's Witnesses Have The Reputation THEY Think They Have?
by minimus inwitnesses believe they are special.
the publications give many examples of how wonderful a witness was viewed upon by a "worldly" person.
kms tell of how so many praise the witnesses for being so "different".....what would you say is the real way people view jws??
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just found out....
by donald inguys and gals try this one on....i just found out that our local congertion...sold the old hall...with all its acrege...to the local catholic church to become a school.for preist.....i had thought the wtbs was to have no dealings with babylon the great....donald
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Liberty
Our old Kingdom Hall was also sold to a Church of evil Christendom. It's "funny" isn't it that an individual JW can't sell Christmas trees( when they are just still trees) or join the YMCA but the holy Watchtower Society can sell buildings to organizations which will use it to practice "false religion" and mislead millions into destruction at the big "A". What hypocrites!!!! When it's their money conscience is no issue but if it is a rank & file JW then it's a big deal where some have lost jobs over things of much less importance than providing churches for the DEVIL and his followers. Just more proof of the LIE which calls itself "the Truth".
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9
Jesus' Enthronement, 1914, 1919, or 33 C E. or not at all???
by Blueblades inif jesus' enthronement has not yet occured and will never occur, this topc is mute.
however if jesus' enthronement did occur according to scripture, when did it actually happen or is it yet future?.
the watchtower society has it occuring in the year 1914 --1919, which time frame is the lynchpin for there organizational existence.
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Liberty
This topic is interesting primarily because it really forces the hardcore Watch Tower defender to think about what they are defending. Even if I bought the concept that the W T Society was not a false prophet 100% and was able to disregard their own hype about "the End before the close of the 20th century", " before the passing of the 1914 Generation", 1975, the Cold War, WWII, and 1925 I am still left with the doctrine of Christ's invisible return and presence since 1914. Even if we disregarded all the evidence which clearly states that 1914 is not a real marked date due to the secular chronologies we are still left with a time-doomed doctrine. Why would Christ bother to have His Second Coming in 1914 just so He could sit around and do nothing for nearly 100 years as it relates to the timelines leading to Armeggedon? Since several generations have been born and died already from 1914 onward the significance of His "Presence" begins to resemble the doctrine that many mainstream Christian religions have taught for years, namely, that Christ's Second Coming occured in the distant past (33 CE) and He has continued to rule over the Earthly Christian Kingdom made up of his believers for thousands of years and is unrelated to any End Time events. In essence, if Christ's Presence And rule since 1914 continues with the Big "A" no where near in sight for over 100 years then His presence has nothing to do with Armeggedon. Most of what makes the JWs think they are so special evaporates with every passing year. How any JW can still defend this date as having any special meaning is beyond me.
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Will reading CoC automatically make me want to leave WTS?
by ljwtiamb insince i am still active (somewhat).
i have not read the book and you know what the org says about it.
will crisis of conscience surely send me into a tailspin?
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Liberty
Hi ljwtiamb,
Nothing can make you automatically leave the WTS. Only an individual JW's common sense and a commitment to truth seeking will allow them to see the WT Society for the white-washed monument to falsehood that it really is. The WTS own claims that seeking the truth was a noble life's goal had instilled in me the seeds of their own udoing in my mind. Long before I had ever heard of Raymond Franz and his books, the World Wide Web, or even touched a computer I had already begun to question the truth behind the "Truth". The journey was a long and painful one but well worth breathing the fresh cold air of reality.
My first clues about the true "heart condition" among the leadership of Watchtowerism was the glaring mismatch between what they told the Rank & File to do and believe and what they did themselves. I'm not talking about a blatent disregard for morality but rather something that was much worse to my mind. They simply never really acted like the World's end was imminent. I found this contradiction stunning and unresolvable. The entire reason that they claim Jehovah had called them all together into the WT Organization in these Last Days was to warn the World that Judgement was fast approaching, and yet, for all their talk and posturing even the local Elders were, by and large, totally invested in the Here and Now of this World.
The WT Society itself was totally complacent about writing off huge areas of the Globe where ever they could not easily send their missionaries. The Communist and Muslim dominated parts of the World encompassing billions of people were all but forgotten in their self proclaimed "World-wide preaching work". The WT Society's lame justification for this was the collective guilt theory which stated that the political leadership which barred JWs from making inroads to these populations were ultimately responsible to Jehovah for the billions who would die at Armagedon. This is hardly the attitude one would expect from true believers who should be willing to risk everything to get in and warn these people of their doom. It was clear to me that maintaining their resources and directing them to the easier converts in the rest of the Free World and Catholic dominated countries was their real goal. I never understood how the Watchtower leadership could make the claim that God's Judgement would be brutal yet fair since all had been given ample chances to repent when billions of people had never even heard of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Bible clearly stated that the entire inhabited earth would be warned and then the End would come even if the stones must cry out the warnings. How could the big "A" come without this being fulfilled? No one in the WT Society ever gave me a good answer to that question.
When I told the Elders I wanted to learn Arabic so I could go and warn the Muslim World I was told that this would be a foolish waste of time and to concentrate my efforts in the U.S. Bible belt region I already lived in. I was shocked that they didn't care at all about these people who would be destroyed based only upon the geographic accident of their births. How could a fair God do such a thing? For an Organization whose sole mission is to save as many lives as possible in such a self proclaimed limited amount of time they sure were conservative and cautious in going about it. It was pretty clear that there was no major plan in place for the WT Society to infiltrate these difficult regions and billions would be killed without warning because of the Society's total lack of interest in ever doing so.
The local Elders were also busy with building their own comfortable lives and businesses. Using their gullable flocks as cheap labor they created cleaning businesses or sign shops allowing them to buy large new houses and expand these businesses while they married attractive ladies and proceeded to have children. Hardley the actions of people who were convinced that the World as they knew was soon to end any day now. All the while the Society's publications and the Elders told the R&F that they shouldn't pursue "worldly" goals or get a University education since the End was so near. The bragging reports of the Society's long term buiding projects (some requiring up to 8 years to finish) also made me wonder just how conviced they were that soon the UN would turn on the World's religions and destroy them including the Watchtower and all its physical holdings. It looked to me that even in the mid 1970's that the Society was digging in for the long haul and investing in this World rather than desperaretly saving as many people as possible before the End could overtake them. All the evidence told me that, despite what they insistantly claimed, the WT leadership did not act like they believed Armageddon was near.... so then why should I?
This was just one of many realizations which led to my eventual dismisal of all that the Watchtower's taught and the end of it's control over my life. It would be years later until I found the internet and Ray Franz. His books filled in the gaps and made sense of many things I had only suspected before. I would say that by the time someone reads Franz's books they are already on their way out of Watchtowerism. The Watchtower Society is its own worst enemy because of its many false prophecies, lack of love and conviction, and downright illogical, contradictory, and ever changing doctrines. Ray Franz should be the least of their worries. Intelligent, honest, and sensitive JWs will eventually feel that something is wrong because the WT Society is rotten to the very core and no book is needed to tell them that.. As these honest people of conviction leave the rotteness just becomes more apparent.
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50
Is Michael Jackson INNOCENT??
by breeze ini am sure this is not new topic, but today seems to open the ???
, is he just a target because of his wierd behavier.. i want to think he is innocent????.
the press in this country is sometimes off the center of the subject.....maybr not representing the real truth....???.
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Liberty
Michael Jackson is, at the very least, guilty of an abnormally huge amount of poor judgement. I think any adult should be free to keep pornography laying around their bedrooms if they are so inclined BUT NOT if your bedroom is used as a sleep over "clubhouse" for children. Not to mention that sexually normal men in their mid 40's do not want their bedrooms to become sleep over "clubhouses" for little boys in the first place, even if they are very innocently fond of children.
His guilt is especially clear considering that Jackson lived in a huge mansion with dozens of large rooms which could have easily been used as sleep over/play areas without ever venturing into his private bed chamber stocked with "adult" material and alcoholic beverages. Even if we bought his "Peter Pan" image, Jackson's behaviour should cause us to question why he insists on bringing little boys into his adult oriented bedroom for sleep overs since he could easily afford to equip any room he wanted with child-appropriate entertainment and refreshments. Jackson even claims to have slept on the floor in a sleeping bag while his "guests" used his bed. This makes some sense if you are poor and only have 1 bed but since Jackson could easily equip any number of rooms with state-of-the-art beds his sleeping bag story is just plain unbelievable. I am 43 and the thought of choosing to sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag when a comfortable bed can easily be had is just plain silly cosidering middle aged bodies don't react well to sleeping on the floor.
I really like children but it is clear that Mr. Jackson's "love" of young boys is more a dangerous obsession than a longing for his lost childhood. Most of us who love being around children understand that our interests and the children are better served by becoming a Big Brother volunteer or a Boy Scout leader rather than inviting the kids over to our bedrooms for pornography and some wine. Since Jackson has never shown any sexual interest in adult women we can only assume the pornography serves another purpose, primarily to exite young boys. Sexually stimulated young boys at a sleep over is not what the average man in his mid forties dreams about on cold lonely nights.
Pop stars who have access to hundreds of beautiful adult women should balance their time between children's charity and adult recreations mutually exclusive from one another. The fact that Jackson spends the bulk of his time and fortune sleeping over with little boys rather than having adult relationships should tell us something about where his true sexual interests lie. The fact that his two "wives" continued to live in their own homes, one in fact hundreds of miles away from Neverland and Jackson, tells us the true state of his possible romantic encounters with these adult women. The fact that the children he claims to have fathered all appear to be white and look nothing like his pre-plastic surgery genetic self also belies the reality of his sexual interests in adult women, namely, that women are not even worth sleeping with for procreation let alone recreation.
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confused teenage witness
by smias03 inhi everyone, this is my first post.. i have come to this site for almost 2 months but have been too scared to post... don't really know what i'm scared of but i even set up a different hotmail account when i registered... anyway, i'm a 19/f who was raised a jw (baptised a year ago).
i was homeschooled, and basically had no communication with the "world" even though my father is an unbeliever.
my parents were divorced last year (unscriptual divorce from my jw mother).. and now i'm living with my dad and have not spoken to my mom, not because i have doubts about the truth (she doesn't know) but because she was a hypocrit and liar through the divorce.
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Liberty
Hi Smias03,
As others have suggested I would strongly recommend getting into college. Take advantage of your free youth and shyness by concentrating on a degree. Friends will come naturally as you busy yourself with school. You will not regret getting an education since all your hopes, dreams, and the level of freedom you will eventually enjoy depends upon a good job which, in turn, almost always requires a university degree. Do it now before you get tied down with a love interest and kids because it will only get harder to go back. Jws really cheat themselves when it comes to an education so don't end up in a low paying dead end job because some old fart Governing Body members in New York told you this was better. Living well is the best revenge.
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Qs about Xtianity-for any Xtians to answer
by Ravyn inthis is a copy of a post that i put on a xtian forum after being asked directly what my problem with xtianity was.
i open it to anyone who wants to answer me here also.
i am trying to learn tolerance amid a hostile environment of extremes.
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Liberty
As to what I would call my spiritual practice now that I have left Watch Towerism behind, I would say that I most strive to be a skeptic who uses science to figure things out. Being a skeptic does not come naturally to me so I have to work at it. I am also quite interested in Buddhism, especially the Zen branches. It is interesting to me how so much of this Eastern way of thinking predates Western Psychology yet discovered the same things years ago using only reasoning and observation.
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Qs about Xtianity-for any Xtians to answer
by Ravyn inthis is a copy of a post that i put on a xtian forum after being asked directly what my problem with xtianity was.
i open it to anyone who wants to answer me here also.
i am trying to learn tolerance amid a hostile environment of extremes.
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Liberty
Hi Ravyn,
To me, the concept that the Bible is the inspired word of an intelligent super spirit being capable of creating the Universe (God) is complete and utter nonsense. The Bible is merely another set of human made books filled with some practical wisdom, superstition, and lots of outdated foolishness. I refuse to worship the psychopathic murderer described as God by the Bible. Luckily, all the evidence proves that this Biblical God is just a figment of murderous human psychopaths' imaginations and not a real super spirit being since He is so brutal, stupid, and human-like. It seems to me that the worship of sand mounds or any tangable visible object is preferable to the worship of invisible imaginary insane ego maniacs like Jehoover, His so called human son Jesus the masochist, or the later copy-cat God, Allah the equally violent and murderous. Though I am skeptical of all supernatural claims, being a witch and worshipping trees makes more sense to me than being a Christian, Jew, or a Muslim. Praying to invisible blood thirsty super beings makes less sense to me than believing in magic so, compared to religious fanatics, I'd say being a witch seems pretty normal to me now.
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How Quickly the "Truth" Evaporates
by metatron inanother powerful observation about witness kids: it's amazing how quickly the "truth" can evaporate amidst them.. while you and i talk about healing and moving on and agonize about changing our whole lives, many of these kids.
react as if the organization never meant anything to them.. i knew a young sister who left ( an honor roll student with long term witness parents, elder dad and aux pio mother).
who acted astonished that the congregation would df people for "living together".
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Liberty
This is perhaps the result of an Armageddon postponed into infinity. Many of us believed so strongly because it looked like the End was really coming upon us in the late 1960's & 70's. We lived at the same time as the Watch Tower's main Guru, Fred Franz, so he calculated everything so that it would occur within his lifetime and we bought what ever he said lock stock and barrel. The kids today are getting Fred's now pathetic hand me down and time expired theology from an unimaginative and disappointed leadership whereas we got it fresh and urgent from the fevered source. The change in the 1914 Generation dogma really ended the concept of a "real" time frame so they now running on fumes.
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Then & Now
by RAYZORBLADE ini think this post may be an absolute: no brainer
personally, when i was an active naive jw, i studied the bible and could rattle scriptures off, left right and centre.
real good fundie.
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Liberty
Hi Rayzorblade,
I think many of us know where you are coming from. I once would have died for the Bible yet now I think it is utter nonsense. This is not unusual, in fact, it is normal. We all continue to grow intellectually if we are not brainwashed religious/political fanatics. I used to be an ardent Communist after I left the WTB&TS reading everything I could get my hands on about Marxist theory and practice yet over time I have become a Libertarian, the polar opposite of Marxism. Who knows where I will be 20 years from now? I want to keep learning and testing the data I have gathered against reality in order to get a fleeting glimps of the "Truth".
Since I am human and can only see a small portion of the objective truth at any given time, I must constantly struggle to see clearly my place in the Universe. I have also studied Eastern religions looking for insights into myself and the nature of reality. Knowledge is far more important than being totally commited to one idea or philosophy. I never want to be completely sure about anything again because I have proven over and over again to myself that sometimes I made stupid commitments because I did not test my beliefs against the facts hard enough. It is lazy to think that we have found the ultimate truth and that no further study is necessary. Much like science, I think all subjects should be open to debate, criticism, further study, and evidence accumulation. The search for truth is an ongoing process.