Posts by MadApostate

17

Berry Case on Great Crowd

by Kent in

jw
friends

topic closed great crowd discussion board .

read all about it!!!!

posts: 1122. from:.

This repeated JW statement that Jah is using Elders as shepards of His flock, even including those that abuse the sheep, brings back to mind the Marvin Shilmer thread in which MS refused to publicly acknowledge the legal principles I was trying to direct him to. (He was making an issue out of a non-issue or at least small issue.)
I gave up in that thread.

Under American "Agency" law, just because the Agent acts outside the bounds of their Principal-granted authority they do not necessariy cease to be Agents at that point.

One instance is where the Principal becomes aware of the Agent's acts and fails to do anything about such. The Principal is then responsible for that misdeed and any future misdeeds.

Another instance is where the Agent acts beyond the Principal-granted authority, but the third parties whom the Agent is dealing with have good reason to assume that the Agent is actually acting within the authority limits. This is called "apparent agency" because the third parties reasonably believed the act to be within the agent's authority level based on past experience.

This is why Bodies/Committees of Elders will ALWAYS be considered AGENTS of the WTS. MS doesn't have to jump through hoops to prove such. Since Elders are appointed by the WTS, and any committee or other group is acting on behalf of the WTS, and WTS teachings are such that the R&F are required to follow the Elders directions subject to penalty, THEN EVEN IF such a group fails to follow WTS directions, the WTS is LEGALLY LIABLE for the results caused by those Elders' mistakes.

Now, to the point in this thread. By the same application of American Legal principles, (and per JWism), ELDERS are Agents of Jehovah. If Jah sees an elder mistake and does not correct it, He is responsible. IF He allows the mistake to contiue, He is responsible for those. Even IF elders act beyond Biblical bounds, Jah is responsible to those harmed, since those third parties have been taught that the Elders must be followed. So, per JWism and "agency law", Jah AND the Elders are Legally Liable for harm caused by Elders acting as Agents of Him or the WTS, EVEN IF the Elders are acting outside the bounds of their authority.

Thus, even when Elder bodies/committees fail to follow WTS directions, the Elders are still considered "agents" of the WTS, and the WTS is Legally Liable for the harm they cause.

However, this is Strictly a consideration of the "Agency" issue. In the Berry and other similar cases, there are many other issues which must be considered in reaching a final decision, not the least of which are the US Constitutional issues. It is these larger issues which MAY prevent the Berry case from succeeding.

64

HELP!!- JT asked to become a MASON!

by JT in

jw
friends

i have been searching the net for some excellent sites on the masons.

this past weekend we went down to nc for a wedding and my wife and i broke the news to our nonjw family that we were no longer involved with jw.

i could not believe the open arm welcome my uncle and aunt were almost in tears- they told us we have seen you come home each yr from the main office in ny and then you got married and you would come home and we wanted to say something about the jw but you seemed to be so well respected by the local jw - whenever we would tell folks that our newphew was up in ny- the jw would get all excited- they told us they thought it was so sad for i only made $90 a month.

MadApostate

I don't have time to do a detailed post right now, but I'll make a few brief observations. I had a very close nonJW relative that was a Mason, who during their lifetime shared more personal info with me than anyone other than their spouse, and that person told me NOTHING about their Masonry business other than they WERE a Mason.

Another ob: About 20 years ago, and taking a job as a door-to-door sales rep, I encountered a perfect example of the "Mason Business Thing" during the very first sales call that I went on with the Sales Manager. (The product cost around $1200 back then, I believe.) On entering the home, the homeowner and SM shook hands, and both faces started to beam. The HO then shook hands wih me and was obviously disappointed. The SM said something I don't specifically recall, but it indicated that I wasn't one of them. The SM then asked the HO if he wanted to hear the sales demo, and the HO said "NO, just write up the order."

I have other experiences which indicate that this is fairly typical.

I know two highly placed prominent state level politicians whose competency levels are less than average, but got where they are due to "Masonry" connections.

13

TO: MAXIMUS & SEEKER--RE: TROLLISM OR TRUTH

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

the xjw mafia's attack on myself has progressed from underhanded insinuations of "trollism", to alanf's and farkel's failed attempts last week to label me a "wts troll", to yesterday's fullblown attack conducted by kent, tina, and even some of their buddies posing as new posters.

e.h. even accused me of being the same person as "utilitarian reformist".

(wrong!).

MadApostate

The silence is deafening!

13

TO: MAXIMUS & SEEKER--RE: TROLLISM OR TRUTH

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

the xjw mafia's attack on myself has progressed from underhanded insinuations of "trollism", to alanf's and farkel's failed attempts last week to label me a "wts troll", to yesterday's fullblown attack conducted by kent, tina, and even some of their buddies posing as new posters.

e.h. even accused me of being the same person as "utilitarian reformist".

(wrong!).

MadApostate

up

46

WTBTS Innocent in Swaggart Case?

by troubled in

jw
friends

awhile back, i saw information on another web site about the wtbts's involvement with the swaggart case.

the information was presented in a way that depicted the wtbts as involved with the swaggart case and, therefore, false religion.. at first, i was shocked.

however, i did some research on what an amicus curie is.

MadApostate

Gozz and Others:

I don't know how to say this succinctly without sounding condescending, but to continue with the thought that the WTS's act of filing the AC Brief was somehow morally or ethically WRONG simply displays a lack of understanding of both the judicial process and how the courts "make law" via interpreting legislative-made law.

The decision which was to be made by the USSC was to have a much larger impact than just affecting Jimmy Swaggart and the California Tax Dept. The USSC's decision would become "LAW", and would apply to EVERY STATE and EVERY RELIGIOUS GROUP. Look up the decision for yourselves. Other affected groups also file Briefs, and just not as neutral parties like the WTS chose to do. I haven't look at the case since the other day, but I believe that a Catholic group filed a Brief openingly supporting Swaggart's side of the issue. Obviously, they had no love for Jimmy. They simply knew that this was their one and only shot at appealing to the USSC before it made "law" which would also apply to them.

The WTS has made numerous well known appearances before the USSC to protect their Consitutional rights. In several of those cases, OTHER RELIGIOUS/SOCIAL GROUPS which faced the same or similar issues would file AC Briefs to make sure the USSC saw all aspects of he issues, and to make sure that the court understood how their decision would affect other groups besides the WTS. THIS IS ROUTINE.

13

TO: MAXIMUS & SEEKER--RE: TROLLISM OR TRUTH

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

the xjw mafia's attack on myself has progressed from underhanded insinuations of "trollism", to alanf's and farkel's failed attempts last week to label me a "wts troll", to yesterday's fullblown attack conducted by kent, tina, and even some of their buddies posing as new posters.

e.h. even accused me of being the same person as "utilitarian reformist".

(wrong!).

MadApostate

The XJW MAFIA's attack on myself has progressed from underhanded insinuations of "trollism", to AlanF's and Farkel's failed attempts last week to label me a "WTS Troll", to yesterday's fullblown attack conducted by Kent, Tina, and even some of their buddies posing as new posters. E.H. even accused me of being the same person as "Utilitarian Reformist". (Wrong!)

Am I a "WTS Troll"?

DEFINITELY NOT. As I have already challenged AlanF and Tina, if one or both are willing to put up $10,000 to support their slanderous accusations, I will personally visit a mutually-agreed panel of XJWs in my area and prove who I am, and gladly take their money. (Note that rather than accept my challnge, they just increase their attacks. What does that tell you?)

Lurkers and occasional posters should note that what initiated this "persecution" was the fact that I had the audacity to point out to this DB that this Berry v. Watchtower Lawsuit is not as "legally" cut-and-dried as all the chest-thumpers and high-fivers have made it out to be to this DB. As has been pointed out, 99% of the effectiveness of this lawsuit will be the bad PR generated for the WTS. If this case WINS LEGALLY, it will be a miracle. I can find no "legal basis" for it succeeding, and I have posted the "legal reasons" for such, which none of the "MAFIA" are able to refute using legal arguments.

THEN I pointed out to this DB that the Bryan Rees case has been DEAD since February 2000. This is another example of how some XJW authority figures have lied and mislead the XJW community. Certain XJWs have continued for the past 18 months to communicate that this case is still being considered by the US Supreme Court. The Rees lawsuit was so weak against the WTS that the Maine courts didn't even allow it to be tried. They dismissed it simply based on legalities. Then, when Rees tried to take it beyond the Maine courts, the US Supreme Court refused to even waste time listening to the case. This all occurred 18 months ago, yet some XJWs still misrepresent it to us as an active case with lots of potential.

Other XJWs are constantly running their mouths about "numerous" civil lawsuits which the WTS has lost in the past. I don't doubt that "one or two" MAY POSSIBLY exist, but if they do, I can't locate such. The next time someone makes some wild allegation about the WTS losing ANY lawsuit, ask them to post the link!!! Doesn't it make sense that if there were NUMEROUS courtcases LOST by the WTS, all the XJW websites would have a section with nothing but those posted?

NEXT, I joined with Seeker in pointing out that the WTS did nothing wrong in their filing a legal brief with the US Supreme Court when it was deciding whether religious groups could be forced by the states to collect sales tax on religious publications.

SO, what's my CRIME? TRUTH and HONESTY?

I'm sick of "some" XJWs doing the same manipulative things to "other" XJWs that the Borg has done to us in the past. If fellow XJWs have no problem misrepresenting the issues above to the XJW community, I am forced to wonder what other issues they are also misrepresenting?

I fully support SilentLamb's goals to bring justice to abuse victims and derision on the WTS system that fostered that abuse. However, that effort should not be tainted with misrepresentations against the WTS, much less support obtained using misrepresentations to the XJW community.

It is offensive that "some" XJWs use "shunning" and "disfellowshipping" against fellow XJWs to silence them just because they want complete truthfulness. Where else have we seen that occur?

At some point, inquiring minds must ask what's the difference between the JW leadership and SOME prominent XJW leadership-types here? Currently, very little. They victimized us then, and continue to victimize us now!

I'm sure that Kent, Tina, AlanF, Farkel, and all the recent "newbies" will pile on this thread. I have only one request, which the Board can obviously monitor to see whether these people are decent folk.
Please allow Seeker and Maximus to first express their opinions whether MadApostate is a WTS Troll. From the short time I have been here, and have both fought and agreed with both, these two people are the only two "leader-types" who I perceive as preferring integrity over results. Give these two people their say, then the rest of you can crucify me.

Let's see what happens!

40

New Evidence Russell Knights Templar

by Treborr Jones in

jw
friends

the crown and cross emblem on russells pyramid tombstone.

i finally have been able to identify it as the emblem of the knights templar.

the knights templar are the york rite of freemasonry.

MadApostate

TR:

My extensive research has uncovered that Russell was in fact a time-traveling, shape-shifting alien from Pleides, who has visited our planet numerous times during human history.

During one visit, he appeared as the Pharoah who initiated the Pyramid and Sphinx projects. During that time he fathered other pharoahs as well as Moses. Later, Russell shape-shifted and appeared to his son Moses at the top of a huge pyramid in the Sinai, and gave Moses the 10 commandments.

Russell later traveled to Mexico, where he repeated the Pyramid projects, fathered Kings and Priests, and set up ancient civilizations.

Russell's latest earthly visit was in the form of the man we know as Russell, and again he outlined for the Pyramid project in Pittsburgh.
Note that each of these pyramid projects line up strategically on the map. Also note that each pyramid system was smaller in size and quantity of units.

Additionally, during Russell's latest visit, he fathered Adolp Hitler when he visited Austria. He fathered Benito Mussolini when he visited Italy. He also slipped in and father Hirohito when he visited Japan.

My calculations indicate that he may visit again in the near future to father the next group of villains in Europe. Please keep your eyes and ears open for any startup Pyramid projects near London, Paris, Rome, Etc.

Keep up the good work!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
EDIT:

E.H.

I'm writing this via "Edit" because I don't want to burn a post and I may be getting close to my daily limit.

I hope you are only joking about UR and myself being the same person. The only way the "we" could even start to think such a thing would be for someone to be looking at our ISPs, which Simon just recently promised would not be done. I hope that will not become another integrity issue here.

With that said, YOU ARE WRONG. I could ramble on, but I don't know what I could say that would be definitive proof, since the only evidence that MIGHT point to such would be the ISP. And if UR has a similar ISP to mine, then there is a problem with who he says he is since his id info (Fed CC info services) would make our ISPs substantially different.

However, it IS nice to know that I have stirred up this DB to the point that I am being investigated.
Has the "judicial committee" been formed yet?

2

WTS Corporate responsibility; TAXES!

by CornerStone in

jw
friends

i was looking at the freeminds website and noticed a page that listed a mess of the orgs forms that are used to report to the borg, i mean org.

that is one heck of a pile that is used by the r&f as well as elders and such.

i was thinking, (no comments please), that with all the massive paperwork and strict control that members have to deal with, and with the mandatory reporting upon pain of punishment that every r&f have to undergo, does'ent this take the religion clause out of the wts's religion with charitiable tax exempt status?.

MadApostate

Cornerstone:

Your heart is in the right place, but what you are proposing is for some Taxation arm of the governent to declare that JWism is not a religion, and that is simply not going to happen. Common sense as well as US Constitutional guarantees apply.

If you have not already read it, take a look at my post in the Swaggart thread. "IF" the WTS does in fact issue to the Congs invoices containing dollar amounts, AND "IF" the WTS keeps "accounts" of Cong amounts owed to the WTS, AND "IF" mags/lit is withheld until sufficient "donations" are received, then I DO BELIEVE that the state taxation agencies would have grounds to force the WTS to collect Sales Tax (the Swaggart issue), since they would be using mere "technicalities" to distinguish themselves from other retailers. However, hard copy documents evidencing all of the above would be needed.

*******************************
EDIT:

CORNERSTONE, I am replying via "Edit" because I may be getting close to my daily post limit.

I agree with you that the WTS is the "Amway" of religions, but the difference between the WTS and MS is that WTS is a 120+ year old established religion, with a list of successful USSC cases as long as your arm. They could turn up the current "business-like" factors by 1000%, and the government would still not pay any attention.

36

Interesting accidental circumstances

by Kent in

jw
friends

interesting accidental circumstances .

have anybody but me been wondering why so many people and new posters pop up from nowhere the last weeks, attacking all and everyone?

i find this interesting; since its obvious the attackers do have a special agenda.

MadApostate

Tina:

I always love it when you are unable to control your true nature and display such in your posts, as opposed to the often grutuitous ones which have more "artificial sweetner" than a truckload of Diet Coke.

I'll extend to you the same challenge that I have to AlanF. Put up $10,000, and select a panel of 3 mutually-agreed XJWs from this DB (must live reasoably close), and I will meet with them and allow them to judge whether I am a TROLL!

Now, PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

Or, simply change your photo. When I first came here and saw it, I thought you were a dragqueen.

46

WTBTS Innocent in Swaggart Case?

by troubled in

jw
friends

awhile back, i saw information on another web site about the wtbts's involvement with the swaggart case.

the information was presented in a way that depicted the wtbts as involved with the swaggart case and, therefore, false religion.. at first, i was shocked.

however, i did some research on what an amicus curie is.

MadApostate

Seeker:

--------------------------------
QUOTE: "These aren't exJW lies, they are legal misunderstandings."
________________________________

Sorry, but when "misunderstandings" have deliberately gone uncorrected for almost a decade, then they have risen to the level of LIES.

-------------------------------
QUOTE: "Ex-JW love to slam the WTS every chance they get. Lord knows the WTS deserves it. But if you don't get all the facts, you can be accused of making false accusations. In my opinion, this is an example where ex-JWs went a bit too far."
_________________________________

No matter how much the WTS has misrepresented the truth and mislead people, such is no excuse for some XJWs to themselves misrepresent the WTS, thereby misleading their own fellow XJWs.

THE VICTIMIZATION HAS TO STOP!!! It is outrageous for better-informed XJWs to either actively mislead or to passively sit back and watch others do so.

YES, you did the right thing in posting the truth about the Swaggart case. But as has been demonstrated by those who continue post that the WTS did something wrong in filing the A.C. Brief, YEARS of being told otherwise is difficult to undo.

If WE are RIGHT, and the WTS is WRONG, then we can defeat them being completely truthful. There's no reason to stoop to their level. WE should be taking the "higher road", and setting an example of integrity, not wallowing in the mud with the Pig itself!!!