Posts by outsmartthesystem

59

How do I tell my husband?

by dissonance_resolved in

i'm a born in, baptized as a young teenager, whole family is jw.

i just recently woke up after the new understanding of the fds was announced and it seemed to me to smack of power-grabbing.

i started looking at all the websites we're not supposed to, and now i know why.

read the book "captives of a concept" by don cameron. Your husband does not have to be "gung ho" in order to still be under the control of the organization. He is likely still "captive" to the concept that this is somehow someway still God's organization.

Go VERY slowly. But I will warn you......if he is not ready to see the truth.....he will not allow himself to regardless of how sound your reasoning is or how many facts you present. The only thing you can do is ask sincere questions that he will have to seriously contemplate and research prior to answering you. But even that may not work. I don't mean to rain on your parade but I know from experience. I am going through a divorce because I tried to share what I knew with my wife. Your husband may react the same way my wife did when I asked thought provoking questions to her. "I don't owe you ANY explanation! I will not discuss this with you!"

Simply put.....if he is not ready to see TTATT......at the very least.....he will clam up and refuse to talk about it. At the very worst....he may accuse you of apostasy, leave, and turn you into the elders (what happened to me)

31

What do they want from me?

by MrFreeze in

jw
friends

okay, so the jws (and my mom) would be so happy if i started going to meetings again.

i've made it clear i don't believe what they say so why would they care if i went to meetings?

do they want me to go meetings and be an open dissenter?

outsmartthesystem

Yep........they are POSITIVE that if you drag yourself to the meetings.....eventually you will hear a talk that will open your eyes and make you "return to Jehovah".

24

Is claiming your baptism null and void an exit plan?

by awakening in

jw
friends

i have read some of you talking about baptism not being a legaly binding contract as, for most it was undertaken as a minor.

has anyone successfuly nulled their baptism and exited free of consequence?.

outsmartthesystem

I am certainly not a lawyer.....but LEGALLY.......you may be able to get away with it. But what is the point? You'll be the only person in the entire circuit/district/state to ever have done that. JWs will.....out of obligation to remain faithful to "mother" will shun you anyway because......why would you WANT to annul your baptism unless you are forsaking Jehovah!?!?!?!?

8

Quotemines please

by goddidit in

jw
friends

as we all know, reaching a believing jw is difficult, maybe impossible.. i've tried many years of reasoning before i realised that reason isn't something they really understand, and science is something they can brush off with a wave of their hand.

now i'm going to prepare very succinct examples of their blatant quotemining and somehow get one of them to read it, then ask them why purveyors of the truth need to use lies to support their claims.

maybe i'm too optimistic but i'm hopeful this might have some effect.

outsmartthesystem

I have plenty from their oct 1 2011 and nov 1 2011 magazines that were to set the matter straight regarding 607BC. Here is an example taken from the Oct 1, 2011 WT:

"Thus Christopher Walker of the British Museum says that Ptolemy's canon was "an artificial scheme designed to provide astronomers with a consistent chronology" and was "not to provide historians with a precise record of the accession and death of kings".

But they fail to quote the REST of what he said:

"Nevertheless it has served as the backbone of the chronology of the Neo-Babylonian and Achaemenid periods, and served reliably. There is no difficulty in correlating Ptolemy's chronology with the vast accumulation of data now available from Cuneiform sources."

Please keep in mind that whomever you are trying to reach will still not see the "truth" for what it really is until he/she is ready. I showed my father in law dozens of quotemines and asked him why the holy spirit would direct the writer to hide what was really written. His response to me wasn't "wow.....I don't know". Nor was it "Let's get to the bottom of this". It was "how dare you impute wrong motive on Jehovah's organization!" He promptly turned me in to the COBE to be disfellowshipped. Not once did he address those scholastically dishonest quotes. He had no interest. He only wanted to prove his unquestioned loyalty to the organization. Please remember that. unless this person is ready to wake up......he/she will find a way to dismiss anything and everything you show them. If the information you show is too shocking......it will be the end of your relationship

17

How does the WTS mine quotes for their "scholarly inspired" articles ?

by mP in

ive seen a few threads discussing misquotations, including the quote about roman times taken from a book of fiction.

apologies but i cant recall the author or the book mentioned but im sure others will know what im talking about .. so how many books do they read to find these quotes ?

they must b e buying a lot of apostate books just to find a worthy quote.

outsmartthesystem

Search hard enough and long enough and you'll find SOMEONE that agrees with you.......or at least APPEARS to. Then you tout that person as though they are the leading expert in that field and voila! You have 7 million JWs that believe you! The JWs won't check on the credentials of that person nor will they check to see if that was his WHOLE quote.

Here is a good example I wanted my disfellowshipping committee to address. They refused:

Oct 1, 2011 WT "When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed" - "Thus Christopher Walker of the British Museum says that Ptolemy's canon was "an artificial scheme designed to provide astronomers with a consistent chronology" and was "not to provide historians with a precise record of the accession and death of kings".

As you can see, the intent of the writer was to use Mr. Walker as a reference to back up the idea that Ptolemy's canon is unreliable since it's purpose was not to provide a precise record of kings. What they left out was what Mr. Walker said next.

" "Nevertheless it has served as the backbone of the chronology of the Neo-Babylonian and Achaemenid periods, and served reliably. There is no difficulty in correlating Ptolemy's chronology with the vast accumulation of data now available from Cuneiform sources."

If they put the whole quote in their article......it would only serve to show that Ptolemy's canon is accurate. But they need to show it as INaccurate. How do we do that? Only quote the parts that suits our need! If you really think about it......the GB launches forth Theocratic Warfare against its own followers on a continual basis. I mean......they continually leave out parts of quotes that don't suit their need.....so ultimately......aren't they "withholding" the truth from those they have determined don't deserve to see it?

75

Bibles out of stock at Bethel?

by nochoice in

our congregation is rationing regular bibles like they're gold bars.

i was told that bethel is out of stock!

anyone else hear about this?

outsmartthesystem

"Like with the Watchtower they looking for ways to cut costs. They're probably take the bible from 66 books down to 33 books."

HA! Since they re-wrote the parable of the three slaves to match organizational history (see God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached (p231).......why not re-write the bible a little to condense and save ink and paper? Jesus could meet Moses at Mount Olivai where Moses can show him the 10 commandments he just received. Jesus will read them and say....."no dude.....these tablets are going to morph into volumes of seriously legalistic BS. Just treat others the way you want to be treated." And just like that.....thousands of years of legalism can be avoided and the GB can focus on placing themselves as mediator between man and God.

37

A conversation about universal sovereignty

by outsmartthesystem in

"well osts, satan, through adam challenged god's right to rule......so god had to let it play out to show that he really should be the one ruling mankind.

both the angels and humans needed to see this.

me - why couldn't god have allowed adam's children to remain perfect?

outsmartthesystem

And here's another good one. "Mankind had been slipping further and further away from perfection with each and every generation that passes". This is a common belief amongst JWs, no? With that thought process.......why did Cain kill Abel? I mean.....he was one generation removed from perfection. Shouldn't his worst sin be something like keeping an extra watermelon for himself instead of sharing it with his brother?

And if the second generation is capable of murder......and each generation is getting progressively worse......then shouldn't this generation be using the hearts of babies, puppies and kittens as the latest form of renewal energy? Or shouldn't we be cloning children now for the sole purpose of producing genuine leather coats?

81

Julia's Inquisition - Two elders, the full version! I want you all to see this.

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

sorry it's gonna be long winded.

i've done my best to reconstruct from memory.

my husband was next to me the whole time.

outsmartthesystem

I agree with DOC. I think you did a fabulous job.....but admitting to reading the Flock book may be all it takes to DF you. You have shown a BRAZEN disrespect for Jehovah's Channel of Information.

19

From laundry mat to laundry mat

by donny in

about three years ago, i was walking past a local laundry mat and i noticed some of the society s publications laying on the chairs by the window.

so i walked inside and found an awake from 1995 and a watchtower from 1989. the latter one was funny to me because i was still in the organization when it was released.

i couldnt help but be shocked at how old these magazines were.

outsmartthesystem

I recall making an entire morning out of driving to laundrymats and leaving magazines. boy was I making Jehovah proud!

I also agree with Glander. The superstition about how to dispose of the literature is amazing! We were cleaning out once and I started to throw old magazines away.....my wife nearly had a heart attack. She said "I can't believe you would throw letters from Jehovah in the trash!" So I said....ok.....we'll put them in the fire pit. She nearly passed out. "You can't BURN the magazines!!!!!!!" Then what the hell am I supposed to do with them?

28

For those still "in"... is it just me?

by leaving_quietly in

jw
friends

i'm still "in" and i've noticed an odd trend recently.

conversations with jws seem to be more jw-ish than ever!

in normal conversation, i'll hear: "these watchtowers are just wonderful!

outsmartthesystem

I think Theocratic Sedition nailed it. I never realized how asleep I was until I woke up (if that makes any sense). When I learned TTATT and was still going to meetings........THAT is when I paid the closest attention to what was being said (both from the platform and in conversation). I think the kool aid level was always high......I just didn't notice HOW high before