Posts by aristeas

Wow, that's quite a heartfelt post! There is an unquestionable divide between biblical views and the modern western world's values, on so many fronts. I have a cousin who went through the 60s & 70s movements & social unrest. She lived in Haight-Ashbury and we used to smoke weed together (all before my JW days). She was big on women's lib, making social changes, etc. Then I saw her at a family reunion around 1990 (?), about the time I was exiting the O, with a husband and child she had given birth to at 40. I couldn't get over how'd she had changed and gone back to traditional values. She said she'd never go through childbirth again at that age, so they adopted a girl from overseas so that her daughter could have a sister. To my knowledge, she's never had anything to do with JWs/WTS, but she has swtiched her values away from the world's, like you have. I hope your tears do stop. Offering your advice here to younger women is thoughtful of you.

Peace.

5

MORE anointed?

by aristeas in

jw
friends

quandry, a veteran member here (since 2006 with 3400+ posts), sent me this thoughtful reply after my first post a few days ago.

i'm reposting it as a new thread to see if others would like to comment on the point she brings up on the rising number of 'anointed' ones.

i had mentioned that i've been mainly out of jw contact (officially anywaya few ex-j dubs/inactive ones i have kept in contact with minimally) for over 20 years.

aristeas

Quandry, a veteran member here (since 2006 with 3400+ posts), sent me this thoughtful reply after my first post a few days ago. I'm reposting it as a new thread to see if others would like to comment on the point she brings up on the rising number of 'anointed' ones. I had mentioned that I've been mainly out of JW contact (officially anyway—a few ex-J dubs/inactive ones I have kept in contact with minimally) for over 20 years. Now I've taken an interest again, so have joined this forum, gone on line here and elsewhere to read others' take on the organization (= O), try to learn what's been happening, etc. The internet's birth has really made a difference in being able to talk candidly about the O. It's rather remarkable to me. It used to be you'd have to secretly buy books like Ray Franz's, Jim Penton's or C O Jonssons' to get this insider stuff, and you had to be super discreet about it too. I remember one bro., who found out I had read this material, after a WT study article on apostasy in '85 or so, called me from out of town just to check & make sure I'd 'faithfully' disposed of it all. Now it's all over the internet! No wonder the GB is running scared re: the net . . .

Quandry's original words:

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, I'll bet if you left several years ago you were indeed confronted with changes. The generation of Matthew 24 has seen a lot of "new light" to the point where it is rediculous...overlapping generations....I'd explain it but to me it defies explantions.

Also...the number of annointed seems to be climbing continuously! I believe it is up to over 10,000. Others can correct me if I'm wrong. It is hard for me to keep up with the celestial chariot these days...

My reply:

Quandry,

Thx for your thoughts and empathy for my situation. The number of memorial partakers must be of great concern to the GB & other Bethel heavies.

I think they really believe that Jehovah operates toward them in the spirit of Peter where in Acts 10 the apostle needs God to clobber him and give him a kick in the butt via 3 repeated visions, AND have an embassy arrive from Caesarea, AND journey there the next day, AND witness holy spirit fall on Cornelius' household—and only then does he get the message that something new is afoot. Not that God gives visions now, but the same 'duhh' mentality seems to be at work. It's really rather remarkable how they have backed off on the nobody's-anointed-after-1935 mindset. I remember Freddie Franz giving a talk in which he said (in his grating squeaky voice) 'NOBODY's being called to heavenly life any more' unless some previously called one has proven unfaithful. I also remember how anyone who wasn't at least 60 y.o. and began to partake was viewed with suspicion, even if he was an elder who'd been in for many years. Then there were/are always those crazy Firpo Carr types to really muck up partaker stats!

I guess what has transpired is that the above-menioned kick in the butt etc. à la Peter thing, along with a real need for more GB members(!)—weren't they down to just 5 or 6 for a while there?—must have caused them to reconsider. It looks like they are only 'believing' (or at least giving serious credence to) those partakers who are at least middle aged and have years of full-time service. But they have surely opened up a can of worms with this change . . .

This rising number of other partakers must have them in a tizzy. I remember how one very conservative elder who worked in a special way for the Society once said to me when he saw younger people partaking back in the 70s, 'How disgusting . . . something so sacred too!'

I found this chart on another website:

[IMG]http://img247.imagevenue.com/loc357/th_22986_mem.partakers_79_08_122_357lo.jpg[/IMG]

Year Partakers
2000 8661
2001 8730
2002 8760
2003 8565
2004 8570
2005 8524
2006 8758
2007 9105
2008 9986
2009 10857
2010 11202

Anyone's observations will be appreciated on this matter. One thing I remember from back in mid-80s: it was Richard Osterling's Time magazine religion column, I think. He had gone out to see the 'paper baggers' (?) protesting at Brooklyn and one of them said, 'We want heaven too.' Is this now manifesting itself within the O? I suppose it's inevitable now that they got 50-some-year-olds on the GB.

I also want to thank many of you who have welcomed me here, made thoughtful comments on so very many posts by others. I must admit, I'm quite overwhelmed at what I'm finding here & elsewhere (I wish I had more time to peruse the old posts!). Again, no wonder the O is vilifying the net .

Cheers.

77

Board Dynamics

by snowbird in

jw
friends

very few posters on friday and saturday nights.. heavy traffic on mondays and tuesdays - nights, also.. moderate amount on sundays, wednesdays, and thursdays.. syl.

.

aristeas

Wow—now this thread was very revealing as to the group that's active here

Snowbird, are you the admin here?

25

Yet another newbie....

by breakfast of champions in

jw
friends

been lurking since last august and figured i'd sign up.

history (although i feel like i've read this experience 100 times on.

this board already):.

aristeas

Breakfast,

I understand what you are going through. I went through it over 20 years ago—seeing the ineptitude and lack of thruthfulness from the GB on down to the local level. I agree with Quandry: take it slow, be gentle to your wife. Remember how Jesus said he had many things to tell his disciples but they couldn't yet take it (John) and that he taught them only as far as they could listen (Mark). Just keep your faith in Jehovah up, however you can do it! Prayer is real important. We will all just have to see how things all work out

Cheers & welcome aboard. I'm new here too.

51

Are more long standing JW's leaving?

by cantleave in

jw
friends

at one time, it seemed that the majority of those leaving, were young ones brought up in the cult.. from what i can see now (at least on here), there seems to be a high number of 20+ baptised members years leaving.. has this always been the case?

it might be i just didn't notice from my parochial view from the kingdom hall!.

or are there really more long standing jw's leaving now, than ever before?.

aristeas

A highly productive thread.

Alfred, LOVED your pic! Many thx!

37

Are JW EX elders in need of our contempt or sympathy ?

by eruption in

jw
friends

point 1. not so long i would have strung them all up and hanged them.. point 2. these guys were the real succers, not only did they become jw,s, they embraced and adopted the cults teachings, and to some extent subjugated thier familys happiness, and thier own,to elevate themselves, and achieve status and recieve privellages, ie not have a f-----g life.

point 3 they had the onerus task of making sense, of the ever changing (truths) and having to teach that crap to the rest of us, and cope with the subsequent questionings that would invariably follow.. point 4.they had to take the lead in (sales) distributing literature.

point 5.they were the authoritarian face of the society, and a lot of people, (myself included ) thought they were jumped up janitors and window cleaners with a chip on thier shoulders.

aristeas

Falcon & flipper are spot on—it must be case-by-case, not either-or. Look at how many of us left and got enlightened. What if you'd strung us up? We'd have died still deceived!

EE's comment is also good:
'Whoever is in a perceived place of authority will always get abuse and looked down, deserved or not.' Kudos for your insight.

OTWO:

You too make some right on observations. It was rare to find an elder who actually liked the field service & those who did were of a different breed. I loved your 'They took the lead in sending the sales force out.'

sizemik & eruption:

Sorry for all the bad experiences you had. I guess I was more fortunate, but I did know some real power-hungry, non-spiritual idiot elders. Working with them was awful. I suffered more from their widespread gross incompetence tho.

sizemik: nice to see your revised statement! Healing is important . . .

6

UR thoughts on ogranizational changes solicited

by aristeas in

jw
friends

i first posted this as a reply in my first post thread, but then realized it will get more reading if i post it anew.

sorry for the redundancy.. i've been mulling over some of the recent changes in the organization (henceforth, o).

here are a few ideas.

aristeas

sd-7

Loved your 'drones'!

Yeah, RF was good on the heavies' view of 'the ordinairies.' I'd seen that first-hand many times. They call it 'spiritual maturity' to view them that way . . .

Thx to all for your insights & opinions—really appreciated. I'm just trying to figure out what's been going on after being away for 20 years. I gratefully acknowledge all help.