Posts by Oroborus21

76

Is the Watchtower Society strong enough to win this war with the internet?

by jack w in

jw
friends

could it be that the wts actually thinks it can win this war?

i mean, they are forcing sites to close down, suing the people that run them etc.

i wonder if this is the way they want to "handle" the internet problem.

Oroborus21

Jack,

It is too early to say that the Society has "declared war" and plans on engaging all forms of Internet speech that is critical of it in litigative battles ala Scientology.

So far all we have is the stern warning to its members to stay off the Internet when it comes to JWism and the one lawsuit against Quotes. At this point Quotes remains unique, and there were a few critical errors that he committed with that project that opened him up to a lawsuit based on copyright infringement.

If the Society does begin to engage other websites for the sake of trying to squash criticism it will be a futile effort as we all know and any single victories would be pyrrhic at best.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

14

Gillet vs Watchtower!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

watchtower bible & tract society of pennsylvania, inc., watchtower bible & tract society of new york, inc., watchtower bible & tract society of florida, inc., the west north miami congregation of jehovah's witnesses, inc., francois jn denis and maria nunes, .

in the district court of appeal of florida .

gillet v. watchtower bible & tract society case no.

Oroborus21

howdy,

Observadour: the outcome favored the Society. It won on summary judgment.

The case seems rightly determined. Regular Witnesses are not agents for the Society any more than a catholic believer is an "agent" of the Catholic Church while driving to attend mass even if to be considered a "good Witness" one must go in field service or the organization of the activity.

A Circuit Overseer or District Overseer driving their Society supplied car or one which the Society pays insurance upon and who receive a housing/living stipend, etc. and travelling on assignment would probably be a different story.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

36

Wow, new website! Pay Attention book, WT 2004 CD, Quotes all online

by kwintestal in

auld soul posted about a mirror site at www.reexamine.org/quotes/index.htm and so i checked it out.

i went onto the homepage www.reexamine.org and surfed around a bit and clicked onto the "community portal" and found a download section: .

http://www.reexamine.org/index.php/reexamine:community_portal:publication_downloads:secret_publications .

Oroborus21

Greetings!

Tsk, tsk... getting copies of WT publications. Can't you guys just download porn like everyone else?

Just kidding!!!

Sites located in these countries will be a problem to shut down not to mention expensive. The Wiki tech is pretty cool.

If Hollywood can't stop it The Society will never fully stop copyright infringement, but be careful.

Information longs to be free as the old hackers used to say.

-Eduardo

TooOpinionated: If your girl doesn't believe you or want to see the doc, I could give you the cites from the KMs where the Society mentions the availability of the package. They used to do it each year in the Announcements section and maybe still do. I don't know what the big deal would be for her in not believing that the Society has put together some info that might be of use to counsel? The use of the package isn't a "secret" and actually none of these books listed on the page are "secret" - just not generally available to the public.

47

How much written in this Forum can be believed?

by Spectrum in

jw
friends

i want to turn this forum on its head for this thread.

i'm here on this forum to find as many truths as is possible relating to jwism.

i'm not really here to stick the boot in although once in a while my emotions might get the better of me.

Oroborus21

Greetings!

Take everything with a grain of salt

Make of the forum what you will, contribute

Use your own judgement and choose your own path

-Eduardo

39

Dumbing down of WT literature can be measured mathematically.

by hamsterbait in

jw
friends

every magazine on the news stand is very carefully aimed at a target market.. .

it has long been known that how information is presented makes a big difference to who will read it.

you will agree that the ny times or scientific american are more erudite than the national enquirer or the toronto star.. .

Oroborus21

Greetings!

Just thought that I would point out that there has been a trend in business, government, professional fields and education for a long time now to write in "plain language" and to attempt to place all materials that are aimed at the general public to no higher than the "8th grade reading level".

So the Society's publications written at such a level or lower is actually evidence of good writing not poor and it is not an indication of the intelligence or sophistication of Witnesses (the primary users of the literature). It is just a reflection of the times.

The Society isn't trying to write beautiful prose or literature, it is trying to communicate what are sometimes difficult concepts in a simple manner - one that can easily be translated in multiple languages I might add.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

23

Doubts

by lazuli in

jw
friends

i'm an 18 year old girl, i started studying with the jws 9 months ago.

i was dating a guy that was a jw and i chose that i also wanted to study.

we were together for 2 years and broke up four months ago.

Oroborus21

Hi Lazuli,

Do you know the song "the Middle"? Hang in there, things will get better. Most of us have been through something like you are going through. It is hard but after a while you will see that things will be OK. If you can make some friends that would be very helpful.

best wishes,

Eduardo

40

What can we do about QUOTES.COM?

by Pistoff in

words fail me in describing my anger at the arrogance and truly evil scheming by the wt against quotes.

please discuss here how this site helped you, and what we can do to set up mirror sites from offshore isp's.. pm me if necessary.. quotes really helped me in my search, and i want it to be there for searchers.. .

and this is for you, ted jarascz.

Oroborus21

Greetings!

Ok, let's get something straight. While Peter's approach was unique, what he actually did has been around for a long time. Read Whalen, White, even the hyper-inflated Wilson and you will see that comparing published statements of the Society has been around for a long time.

This great tactic can be used by anyone on any website, in any published work, etc. but you need to play within the rules and within the Doctrine of Fair Use.

Quotes ran afoul of the law for two reasons in my opinion. 1. reproducing CDs which in effect contained significant portions of copyrighted work and 2) by trying to be completely "objective" and not commenting on the material.

In the U.S. the doctrine of fair use requires that some comment (scientific, critical, artistic, etc.) be made upon the excerpted material in order for the user to avoid copyright infringement. Also note that the quantity (size, amount) of the work is not an essential factor, even a tiny quantity can be an infringement, although the greater the quantity of the copyrighted material is used the more likely it would be deemed an infringement.

Therefore, if you plan on using any copyrighted material without permission, then you should make sure that you are within the bounds of fair use of the material by commenting upon the material and making sure that the purpose for which you are using it is an acceptable one.

Remember that copyright protection is an economic goal. A court will recognize and protect a copyright holder's rights when it is evident that the holder may suffer economic harm. Criticism, polemicism, critique, praise, apology, by themselves are not a basis to uphold a copyright holder's right to prevent others from use of the material.

Thus make sure to provide such commentary upon any excerpted material and refrain from offering anything for sale that contains such copyrighted materials.

As always, if you plan on making use of any copyright holder's work, if possible consult a local attorney, and be prepared to defend your use. As Quotes experience shows, even when the case is arguable or even if the law is on your side, defending a lawsuit might be and probably is going to be overwhelming. Some of you in this position may also wish to determine whether your state has a similar law as California's Anti-SLAPP law which might be used in a potential lawsuit.

As for mirror sites of Quotes, without encouraging this, if these are set up you should try to remove any reference to "Quotes" old domain or Peter, if there are any in the site, so as to avoid Peter's having to establish that he has nothing to do with such sites. (Such sites might even contain a disclaimer - stating explicitly that the site doesn't have anything to do with Peter Mossier or the Quotes.watcthower.ca website.)

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

201

WTS vs Quotes: Requiem for a Research Web Site

by Quotes in

in compliance with the terms of a settlement agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark".

the domain "watchtower.ca" has been transferred to wts (i assume they will have it pointing to borg.org watchtower.org asap).

my copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my wt library cd has been destroyed, in accordance with the settlement agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me.

Oroborus21

Greetings!

This is a terrible thing and a bad precedent for both those who wish to challenge the Society and for the Society too. My heart goes out to Peter and I am glad that I got my CD a long while ago. I have just a couple of comments:

1. I know that the case never got to court, but if the case had been brought to court in the U.S., Peter probably would have lost the case. Here's why. The doctrine of fair use requires that some "comment" (scientific, artistic, critical, etc.) be made upon the excerpted copyrighted material in order for it to be a permissable use. Peter's approach of using the material without any commenting upon it, while amirable in its objectivity, would probably have run afoul of copyright law in my opinion. (I don't know but suspect that Canadian law might be similar in that it requires some commentary upon the copyrighted material for it to be ok.)

2. I noticed that the settement agreement included WATCH TOWER, WATCHTOWER, AWAKE, and JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES "among the terms it has copyrighted (presumably in Canada) and that the agreement is binding "worldwide."

Just for your info a search of the USPTO reveals that "Watchtower," "Awake" (without the "!") are not the trademark/servicemark/wordmark, etc. of the Society in all cases and uses. I could not find that "Jehovah's Witnesses" was a registered mark at all even for a website.

But even so, persons with these names, including this domain/website - Simon - may wish to begin planning now to defend any attack by the Society to shut down their website.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

103

REVIEW OF JCS "BIG NEWS" ARTICLE

by Oroborus21 in

note: the catholic molestation cases have mostly been evaluated under employment law theories not the tort of misrepresentation or under non-fraud related tort claims]; fails to address important legal considerations such as standing and statute of limitations; and finally and most importantly, the essay fails to address in any meaningful way the inevitable constitutional arguments that would be raised by opposing (watchtower) counsel.

supreme court justices do not have the time to browse through law journals and the implication that they would be interested in an essay is even more deceptive.

the society does not cite a 1960 study as evidence that blood transfusions are hazardous.. here is the actual quotation in context:.

Oroborus21

Lord Auld Soul,

I will give you the chance to have the last word, after that let's do email or something. I don't think this going back and forth over the same points is not interesting to the forum.

The "Proof is in the Pudding" as the old saying goes. When I turn out to be right in may judgment and no case is won against the WT in the next 5 years on a tort of misrepresentation concerning blood OR any medical or healtcare statements (or even any secular statements) All i want from you is a big t-bone steak dinner.

If I am wrong I will gladly serve up some humble pie with your steak too.

-Eduardo

103

REVIEW OF JCS "BIG NEWS" ARTICLE

by Oroborus21 in

note: the catholic molestation cases have mostly been evaluated under employment law theories not the tort of misrepresentation or under non-fraud related tort claims]; fails to address important legal considerations such as standing and statute of limitations; and finally and most importantly, the essay fails to address in any meaningful way the inevitable constitutional arguments that would be raised by opposing (watchtower) counsel.

supreme court justices do not have the time to browse through law journals and the implication that they would be interested in an essay is even more deceptive.

the society does not cite a 1960 study as evidence that blood transfusions are hazardous.. here is the actual quotation in context:.

Oroborus21

AS:

"Therefore indoctrination must be ONGOING on this issue. In this case, on a yearly basis up until two years ago. Medical misrepresentation is a consistent part of that ongoing indoctrination."

This is the point that you and the essayist fail to appreciate. Medically related statements regarding Blood made by Witnesses is part of the indoctrination, the teaching of the doctrine regarding blood, from the outset. It is inseparably religious.

-Eduardo