president bush says that he is going to texas to visit the state where hurrican rita will hit.
but the eyewall is probably going to actually make landfall in louisiana!
well i suppose he has to let all his supporters in texas know that he cares.
President Bush says that he is going to Texas to visit the state where Hurrican Rita will hit. But the eyewall is probably going to actually make landfall in Louisiana!
Well I suppose he has to let all his supporters in Texas know that he cares. At least it is the thought that counts.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
.
like that, they wouldn't need so many elders and ms. they would have plenty of brothers to read and pass the mic.. no where in the bible do they mention how big or small a congregation should be.
if ever one day they have a hard time forming enough ms and elders, wouldn't it be simpler to just make congregations larger?
Greetings!
I agree that the principle reason to keep a congregation to a certain size is to "maintain control."
But you all talk about "control" like it is a bad thing (and I understand why because of your mistaken belief that JWs are a cult) but there are positive consequences of maintaining "control" and order. The persons that are suggesting that "control" is a bad thing are by consequence advocating a form of congregation which is more or less completely absent of control and thus order in which case what you have is just a meeting of individuals completely void of structure. that might be a fine experience and maybe even a good time, but it is certainly no way to organize a group towards any purpose.
Some positive reasons why the Society might wish to keep congregations small (similar to why school classrooms are kept small):
Some (cynical) negative reasons why the Society might wish to keep congregations small
As to the phenomenon, I think they tend to split if they reach about 200 or more. I have actually been in a congregaton where another congregation got dissolved and we got half of the old congregation. In the U.S. there may be more such consolidations in the future, while growth in the Spanish and other language areas means more splits for them.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
after what appeared to be some backsliding and softening of the view that the un is the beast of revelation and a principal player in the gt and armageddon, i was just reviewing the september 15, 2005 watchtower and the article "walk by faith, not by sight", paragraph 13, reiterates the traditional view of the un's involvement.
some of the statements are: "elements within the united nations will be involved in the execution of divine judgment"..."bible prophecy indicates that militarized powers within the united nations will see religion as a disturbing element and will act to destroy modern-day jerusalem - christendom - as well as the rest of babylon the great.
" (revelation 17:12-17).
Greetings!
After what appeared to be some backsliding and softening of the view that the UN is the Beast of Revelation and a principal player in the GT and Armageddon, I was just reviewing the September 15, 2005 Watchtower and the article "Walk by Faith, Not by Sight", paragraph 13, reiterates the traditional view of the UN's involvement.
Some of the statements are: "Elements within the United Nations will be involved in the execution of divine judgment"..."Bible prophecy indicates that militarized powers within the United Nations will see religion as a disturbing element and will act to destroy modern-day Jerusalem - Christendom - as well as the rest of Babylon the Great." (Revelation 17:12-17)
I am surprised to see this as I thought the Society was finally recognizing how impotent the UN itself is.
I can hear some Cynics out there already wagging about how since it isn't an NGO any longer the Society can unleash the vitriolic verbage once again. Note the parsing of the military elements from the humanitarian elements. Expect future positive commentary of the latter from the Watchtower.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
jehovahs witnesses and education a brief history .
it is only the ignorant who despise education.
publilius syrus, moral sayings, first century b.c.e.
Hi Nicodemus,
You wrote a very nice essay, well-researched and terse enough to be readable.
However, I would have to disagree with your fundamental premise. Having just read the article in question from the October 1, 2005 Watchtower, I do not see it as anything more than a rehashing of the moderate statements and positions that the Society began to espouse near the turn of the century when the "negative" consequences of flinging open the door to college began to manifest themselves among the Organization as you mentioned in your essay.
The article in question is not a direct attempt at closing the door to higher education and I do not believe that most Witnesses will see it as that when it is studied during the WT study. If the Society truly wanted to reverse its new moderate view of higher education back to a very antagonistic position it will have to be very definitive on the point and express in unequivocal terms that Witness youth (and adults) should not go to anything other than a trade school. This article while not quite equivocal, is not anti-higher education enough to make that point or to clearly define a new (reversed) position towards higher education.
The door to higher education has been open since 1992 and it is extremely unlikely that the Society will be able to shut it again by mere coaxing and conjoling. With no specific date to point to for the onset of Armageddon (a phenomenon unprecedented in the Org's history) since the demise of the Generation Doctrine (and without emphasis on the 1935 Anointed Still Living Doctrine), any such attempts at trying to keep the JW youth and their parents focused on devoting themselves to "kingdom service" first and NOT going to college will be, for the most part, unsuccessful. Yes, there will be a small minority of (fervent) Witnesses that would take such "counsel" to heart, but the vast majority have heard that tune before and are no longer listening to it.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
have you ever considered the anointed, the number of partakers at the memorial and the governing body together?
if you examine the number of partakers you can clearly see that sometimes the numbers increase.
i asked some jws about this and their reply was, "those are replacements for unfaithful ones".
Hellrider,
I think you missed my point.
Take a look at the numbers Natas has provided. As of 1935 there was about 50K of anointed partaking. This number decreases to our present day with some minor fluctuations, and is mostly made up of repeaters from year-to-year.
The point is that at most of JWs (even with so-called replacements for drop-outs) there are only 50K that are Witnesses plus the number of anointed prior during the Russel era, let's just say another 50K as a guess. That makes only 100K as JWs/Bible Students. Add in another sprinkling of 30K to represent those from Pentecost CE to present day that were of the anointed and that leaves 14K left of others in the modern period to be uncovered and to eventually become JWs (or not).
My basic point (and really the actual numbers do not matter to the point) is that the current count from year to year MIGHT actually increase because there are some of that 14K (sealed in 1935) that are NEWCOMERS to the JW faith and thus additions to the number of anointed partaking at the Memorial Observance.
Naturally, all persons from that generation will be dying so at some point the Partaker count will begin dropping rather dramatically and should ultimately reach near zero (with perhaps only a tiny fraction of anointed who are younger persons.)
(NOTE: all of the above is just based on current JW theology and not what I actually believe as I do believe the 144K number from Revelations to be symbolic not literal.)
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
jw friends informed me that this family are jws with the shea heights congregation in scottsdale arizona.
i am told that the elder body there censored this family because the elder body suspected "demon problems".
i am sure those elders feel justified now.
Smiles,
I have to agree with the above poster. Your statement "I am sure the local elders feel justified now" is intended and by implication to involve (alleged) congregational matters with what (from the news report) appears to be nothing more than a tragic accident.
What rankles those of us that have a more moderate view towards the Organization is that opposers will sometimes attempt to cast disparagement upon the Organization by any means possible.
Jehovah's Witnesses as a group experience the same problems, the same shortcomings and the same tragedies as others. Not every negative, hurtful or tragic thing that occurs to a Jehovah's Witness is a product of the religion or the fault of the religion or Organization. And most Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT see any sort of justification through tragedy for one's sins or vindication that such one was on a wrongful course or had committed some wrongdoing because something bad happens to them.
If it was not your intention to do this in this instance, I do not see the point in your providing either the hearsay "punishment" of the family or in your statement regarding the elders feeling justified.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
apparently, god is not a theater fan .
he prefers television
hollywood pat robertson on sunday said that hurricane katrina was gods way of expressing its anger at the academy of television arts and sciences for its selection of ellen degeneres to host this years emmy awards.
Who is Dumber?
The Dumb leading the Dumb or the Dumb following the Dumb?
Dumb, Dumb, Dumb
-Eduardo
tennessee workers' chain saws help ravaged town cleave to hope .
homeowners welcome these house calls by jehovah's witnesses crew jehovah's witness eric pierce of sparta takes a break at the end of the day with friend jonathan clouse of sparta after a long day of cutting downed and damaged trees in waveland and bay st. louis, miss.
john partipilo / staff .
Here is one photo of a KH from the area:
a few years ago my parents went on one of their annual cruises.
2 of my aunts on my father's side went also.
everyone had a great time, so my mother said.
Greetings,
Sensitivities about this vary from JW to JW. Of course some magicians like David Blaine(sp?) cultivate an aura of "dark power" as a source of their tricks while others like Penn & Teller reveal straight up that it is only a trick.
The Society in its usual way has made various statements about magic and the supposed relation to the occult and also as we know in the past "magic" was a word used very broadly to include all kinds of stuff from chemistry to occultism to spiritism and practices that would be considered strange for a christian such as voodoo & santeria, etc. Things like this lead most JWs to reflect the official Society antagonism towards all things called "magic" and of course this even bleeds into many other areas such as Harry Potter, etc.
However, I say that sensibilities differ because some JWs will perform a card trick or other kind of trick. - Not to mention or include the "separating finger illusion", "got your nose", "pretending to throw something and dropping it behind your head" or any kind of "shell game" all of which are tricks of a sort and which probalby everyone has done to someone (usually a child) at some point.
I was once at a congregational picnic and a brother showed me a great card trick, which I have used on a number of Witnesses myself and there were certainly no objections made, however, I will say that he was quick to disclose how the trick was performed. I think JWs who do perform any kind of card tricks or other kinds of slight of hand tricks, etc. would be quick to follow up with a revealing of how it is done specifically so as not to cultivate any kind of implication that "magic" was involved.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr.
PS: As for David Copperfield, I saw his show once and I had a seat on the very back row high up on the balcony. He was making this woman disappear and I just happened to get a glimpse, from my angle, how she jumped back and ran very low behind a wall about 2.5 feet high or so.
have you ever considered the anointed, the number of partakers at the memorial and the governing body together?
if you examine the number of partakers you can clearly see that sometimes the numbers increase.
i asked some jws about this and their reply was, "those are replacements for unfaithful ones".
Thinker,
Actually there is a simpler explanation for why the number of anointed might increase which doesn't require any modification to current JW theology.
Very simply, there may be persons that are newly introduced to the religion (truth) who after learning the truth and about the heavenly hope come to feel and believe that they are part of that number and thus should be partakers. This is especially possible in so-called undeveloped lands but even in well established territories.
Theoretically speaking the supposed "sealing" of the 144K in 1935 is INDEPENDENT of current membership as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Thus a person who is part of that number could be say in Russia or China or some of the Moslem countries and only recently introduced to the truth and started associating with Jehovah's Witnesses as JWs have still to penetrate into lands like these in significant numbers. Therefore, they could be a "new" partaker to be tallied at the official Memorial observance.
This is just an alternative explanation of why the numbers REPORTING could actually increase. I personally do not subscribe to the traditional JW theology in this matter. I also think that unless the 1935 Sealing Doctrine is revised or dropped than we can only assume that very shortly, over the next 2 decades at most that the official number would drop dramatically due simply to biological factors and assumptions about normal life expectancy and human life-span.
Sincerely,
Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
