Posts by ekruks

12

are ministryideaz apostates?

by sneekyapostate in

are ministry ideaz book binders apostates cos its plastered all over the net haha?.

ministryideaz.com - meeting & service supply.

.

ekruks

I wonder, because I'd think many elders would get upset by someone making money from ministry.

51

JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!

by ekruks in

like many on here, as a jw trying hard to follow the direction of the gb, i listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in jehovah to provide (mat6.33) instead of going to university.

after struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, i decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!).

i tell a jw i wish i had been to university when i was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if i had wound up tired as i am now, at least i would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension.

ekruks

Like many on here, as a JW trying hard to follow the direction of the GB, I listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in Jehovah to provide (Mat6.33) instead of going to university. After struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, I decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!)

I tell a JW I wish I had been to university when I was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if I had wound up tired as I am now, at least I would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension. Seems a lot better than approaching middle-age with a dead-end job, struggling to pay rent on a flat in the cheapest neighbourhood !

The response was strange -

JW - It's your fault, you didn't need to pioneer, you chose to, but could have been like other brothers who don't [put the Kingdom first]

Me - It's expected for a brother to reach out. I was only doing what the Watchtower encourages.

JW - You have to use common sense! Don't just do what you are told.

Me - If I can pick and choose which bits to follow, and ignore some, I could just ignore all the Watchtower !

JW - You made the problem for your self by taking what people say too seriously.

{Thought: Well, I'm not taking it seriously now that I don't go to the Kingdom Hall - if this is "the Truth", we should do it properly, and if somethings not right, instead of choosing bits we like and ignoring some, just leave?}

Me - The elders pressured me to quit college. They repeatedly took me aside and counselled me, I was in bad standing in the cong.

JW - No one said you can't go to university. {This person actually told me not to, and still does !}

Me - It's in print. Do we read the same Watchtowers?

22

I'm in, and having a hard time biting my tongue sometimes

by noonehome in

jw
friends

i spend allot of time with other young witnesses my age, and am very close to a few of these friends.

my question is, is there any way to safely talk about doubts?

for instance, i've been learning allot about evolution and the science behind the flood (or lack thereof).

ekruks

noonehome - I have tried to talk candidly to those in, but tbh, it's unlikely to convince them they are wrong, but cause them to think you are a bit crazy. I've spoken to family and elders, but they don't want to know they are wrong, but are offended I am breaking their little dream. Those bits in the Bible about chopping up the concubine, or the bit whether Lot has sex with his daughters, or Abraham offers his son to Jehovah (sound like the so criticised Baal worship, anybody?!), are really sick, but nobody wants to know, they just want the bits about paradise and be nice to others. The blood issue is wrong (sure, AIDS exists, but this is not what the Acts passage is about, it's about being so loyal to God you will give him your life - really sick!) but no one expects it to happen.

You've realised it's wrong. Don't let them ruin your life. If you are still living with your parents, you have to make a careful escape plan. If you can, go to university, while the rent is cheaper at home. Get a qualification and get a real job. If you speak out about what you think, you will be marked by the elders, watched, given a lot of pressure, and this 'worldly / rebel' tag will mean they will look down on you studying and oppose it. I was literally thrown out on the street when I disagreed with the elders and it was very difficult to hold down work, eventually get a flat. Instead, keep a low profile, just keep going along with the car party on the ministry, doing a token effort each month, quietly attend the meetings, so no one suspects you, and at the same time study for a qualification. As you won't have a 'rebel' tag, and can politely point to others, especially elder's kids studying qualifications, you will get away with not pioneering, and not have to clean windows or stack supermarket shelves for the rest of your life. Once you get your degree and your own flat, then stop going to meetings!

57

Anyone with Happy Memories from being a JW born in, please post here....

by SkyGreen in

first up, happy new year .

hi everyone, ok i guess this is controversial, but im doing it as therapy for me - so im not bitter about the way i was raised.

plus i want to see if i can be the op of an "epic thread"!!.

ekruks

I would necessarily connect any happy memory to being a JW - they are events, things that any person might experience. But I can directly connect many negative experiences to growing up in a cult.

9

Why believe in unappealing things?

by Terry in

jehovah's witnesses find hell unappealing.

so, they simply don't believe in it.. yet, most christians probably do believe in hell.. .

no, it is pointless to say that one group "follows the bible" and the other group doesn't.. theology is indebted to the influence of "explainers" and "interpreters" who stamp certain things authoratatively.. .

ekruks

Hey Terry,

I would agree with you, that it doesn't seem to me that JWs generally are "i ntellectually chosen or ideologically driven", but simply like the social community. Others I think are dragged long by their husband/wife/parents whom they want to please. Some like the power of being an elder. I never though have really heard someone give some deep intellectual explanation of why they were convinced, other than simply "the prophecy shows God is behind this" while the prophecy is vague, and doesn't prove JWs right but could equally defend all Christian and Islamic religious groups.

Your comment " low education level... the easily manipulated psychological makeup making them vulnerable":
As an adult, I see the organisation very differently - when I look at my parents, elders, and various ones older than me, I wonder how all the time I was growing up, they with an adult mind, fully-developedmentally, could believe such nonsense.

As a child, born-in, I believed it, because I didn't know better, and had the mind and ignorance of a child. I had my doubts, but everyone around me felt otherwise so I concluded I had some stupid viewpoint. But as I got older, the doubts grew, as did my knowledge of the outside world, science, etc. and as difficult and stressful as it was to reject all I knew, I couldn't accept it was "the Truth".

I don't understand how all this grown persons can't see such, and do wonder if they are perhaps not too intelligent. I note many speak of abusive parents, or various traumatic experiences, such as death of a loved one, and wonder if this makes people in desperation cling to the hope of a better world. We had difficult experiences in the organisation and ran out, but it seems when people struggle in the world, they run into something like JWs to hide from the harshness of reality. I hear so many brothers moaning about how hard it is to financially survive in this world, how they work long hours, blaming Satan and the last days, when in reality, the real issue is that they don't have a full-education, with the GB opposed to university - we create the persecution, and that builds our faith - it's crazy, and what is even worse, is that people can't see what seems so obvious. Tbh, I don't think they want to see.

When I try to discuss doctrine with these persons, to point out flaws, they just repeat whatever the Watchtower says or tell me to trust in Jehovah when I don't understand (blind faith!) - they don't concern themselves with whether it's logical, but simply talk about how "this life can't be all there is" and of the paradise, which is whatever they make it to be. Nobody wants to know about the failed prophecies of the date of Armageddon, because it's an attack on their dream world, and that's perhaps in some way why apostates are met with such hostility. By this time, someone is under such influence of mind-control that they don't notice the social aspect, the love-bombing, has stopped! They can't see how medieval the blood issue is - this is worrying, how blind my family are.

27

the Service Meetings didn't prepare me for this

by stillin in

naked ladies at the door!

various stages of undress, including absolutely nothing on.

my response was to be cool, go into my presentation and sneak a peek when i thought it wouldn't be noticed.

ekruks

Happened quite a few times when I was on the ministry... I think some people did it just because they thought it was amusing, but others did seem to be genuine about having been 'in the shower when you rang', etc. ....yeah, the Service Meeting doesn't prepare you for that.... rather awkward, when you are a young JW lad full of teenage hormones, on the ministry on your own because no one else came to the field service arrangement, feeling really fedup with pioneering, and some hot blonde teenage girl answers the door with a towell falling off... so, I thinking I am not meant to look, so walk away, but oh, this message is life-saving, she can't die because of not being dressed, and she seemed so "interested".

35

Can't get work after pioneering

by ekruks in

jw
friends

i was just wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and can advise me?.

like many here, i was bought up as a jw, with full-time service (bethel, pioneer) the only career option held out in front of me.

i wanted to take a government loan and go to university, but was forced not to, labelled 'materialistic'.. i became a pioneer / window cleaner - round here, almost all pioneer brothers window clean, unless they are retired or have a rich daddy.

ekruks

jgnat, I thank you for your encouraging advice, which was very helpful.

I agree it's better that the brothers stay in the dark - their advice can be rather aggressively forceful, stressful and just wrong - I play down to them my career aspirations, but I want to get out my rather poorly-made flat, get a car that doesn't break down a lot and find a girlfriend, maybe marry (very mixed feelings there) and have kids - these ideas seem so natural now, and I can see this is why I was depressed, but my family and the elders think I'm inmature. I mentioned my thoughts to work where I am for a while then try to get a management position somewhere, and my parents acted like I was talking of being a terrorist.

It must be so tough not being able to talk with your husband about the deception of the Watchtower, it being something that literally controls every aspect of our lives. I hate being single, but I realise others have harder matters. Though, like you, I go to meetings to please family, often use illness to get out of it (meetings do give me a lot of stress!), but recently I have been pressuring the boss to give me meeting nights to work, while telling the brothers I had no choice and need a job. They just tell me to be humble and clean windows - they are so ignorant about money - I found trying to survive without enough money to be incredibly stressful, but they seem content with such stress; how brainwashed we were!

18

starting fresh

by rather be in hades in

jw
friends

when you left, did you feel the need to start your life over?

how did you go about reconciling who you were with how you feel now?.

better yet, for those born/raised in, how did that transition affect you and are you ok with who you used to be?.

ekruks

hades, you describe how i feel

honeybucket, sounds like you are having a tough time - your husband doesn't understand, just like we all once didn't

32

Dating tips for men- Requesting input

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

i've been thinking about putting together a pamphlet of things that have worked well for me over the years.

if it's successful, maybe it will lead to seminars or classes.

feel free to critique, or chime in with your own.

ekruks

35

Can't get work after pioneering

by ekruks in

jw
friends

i was just wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and can advise me?.

like many here, i was bought up as a jw, with full-time service (bethel, pioneer) the only career option held out in front of me.

i wanted to take a government loan and go to university, but was forced not to, labelled 'materialistic'.. i became a pioneer / window cleaner - round here, almost all pioneer brothers window clean, unless they are retired or have a rich daddy.

ekruks

I would like to thank you all for your suggestions and support !!

If anyone else is thinking to do this, GO FOR IT!

I did some work for a local company who didn't pay me, so that goes with the ideas on here to work for free for experience... didn't help with the bills, but I put it on my CV/resume..... revamped my CV heavily, not mentioning the window cleaning. Instead wrote that I had been doing ministry, but I specified my role was equivalent to sales, and described servant duties as if I was a supervisor assisting management (it's how a business would see it!!)

An elder was willing to go on my CV as a reference (he's not in a different city and was always friendly to me - he feels I am depressed due to stress from imperfection in the congregation), so I wrote that he was my mentor in sales (I think this helped!)

I almost left when I arrived early for one interview and overheard candidates before me talking about their degrees. I was telling myself I couldn't pull this off and to just go and wipe some windows. But what I want to share with you is that no one questioned that I had been a salesman (well, we all have been selling the Watchtower; ministry tactics are sales techniques). I was worried they knew someone whose windows I had cleaned, and throw out the dumb window cleaner - but I was ignoring how influenced people are by apperance - I was all dressed up as if it were the assembly, suit, tie, polish shoes, and we are used to dressing like that. I almost threw up when they told me I got the job!

I feel like I have thrown a lot of time and opportunities away, as I see people younger than me in jobs that pay more. BUT this is a lot better than cleaning windows - I don't earn much more and it's a much easier day, with a lot less stress (ironic because brothers say window cleaning is the stress-free way, but too many winters with low heating, not enough food, no money to fix car, no thank you!)No window cleaning customer ever gave me perks like phone, laptop, fuel allowance, or said they will pay for work-related training.