scotoma, I'm marking you!
Posts by JWB
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16Really Important Watchtower News
by scotoma indon't you hate these misleading headers.
i usually wait a day to see if there are a significant number of posters to the page.. but just look at the number of visitors that click on these kinds of subjects.. it builds up really fast.. i don't mind the time factor (1 milisecond) clicking on a bogus "new-secret-this will bring the org crashing down" type of post, but i have to admit it is very disappointing.. .
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Apostasy Trial - Part 5
by RayPublisher inwell part 5 was just put up on youtube!
this is the third 45 minute segment of the 3+ hour meeting.
topics covered include:.
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JWB
Dear Eric, I've just finished watching parts 4 and 5 of your committee meeting video serious. Well, what can I say? It just keeps getting better and better! Too bad they never heard about "Crisis of Conscience", but what do you expect from those whose vision is so restricted by being in such close proximity to the breasts of the Mother organization?
You did so well in giving them a bold, yet respectful witness. I think the fact that you did most of the talking goes to prove that there wasn't much they could say in defence. I'm so looking forward to the rest of the meeting. I'm sure there are many concerned active (and not so active) JWs whom these videos will encourage.
The illustration of the Mormon being encouraged to look beyond his own Church's publications was very powerful. No doubt if such a one then became a JW, his local JW congregation would praise his courage in testing his former Church's doctrines. This is one of the greatest things that troubled me years ago, the double-standards and the fear of having the beliefs rigorously examined. If they are so sure they have the truth, why don't they put faith in Jesus' promise that he would give his disciples "a mouth and wisdom, which all [their] opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute"? (Luke 21:15 - NWT).
Keep up the good work!
JWB -
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Help me to translate it
by jwstudy ini am from japan and want to translate this quote, but last phrase is uncear for me.. here is the quote.. "if a man, holding a belief which he was taught in childhood or persuaded of afterwards, keeps down and pushes away any doubts which arise about it in his mind, purposely avoids the reading of books and the company of men that call in question or discuss it, and regards as impious those questions which cannot easily be asked without disturbing it -- the life of that man is one long sin against mankind.
" - william kingdon clifford - contemporary review (1877).
i understand mostly, but unclear part for me is the phrase.
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JWB
He is not fulfilling his moral obligation to his fellow humans to expose error.
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[In case the Japanese script doesn't show up!]
Kare ga eraa wo koukai suru tame ni kare no nakama no ningen ni kare no doutokuteki na gimu wo hatashite inai. -
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JW molester, Barry Snow, UK, not reported by elders, molested again, court statement
by blondie incampaigners make call for changes in the laws.
thursday, 27 september 2012. .
special report: child abuse and the churches.
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JWB
Thanks Blondie, I think the more people outside of the WTS who raise concerns about the WTS's policies, and particularly if this gets into the mainstream news, the better. One of the worst enemies of the WTS is bad publicity, as this will make an impact on how their agents ('loyal' JWS) are received when making home visits on the public.
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Charles Taze Russell and "independent thinking"
by JWB incharles taze russell and "independent thinking".
"after a good night's rest we started for dublin, where we were met by a committee of four representing the church and were hospitably entertained.
here we preferred a church-meeting only.
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JWB
CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL AND "INDEPENDENT THINKING"
"After a good night's rest we started for Dublin, where we were met by a committee of four representing the Church and were hospitably entertained. Here we preferred a Church-meeting only. It lasted from 4 p.m. to 11:10 p.m., tea being served in the same room. The Dublin company is not in a most happy condition; several of the dear friends have become afflicted with 'independent thinking,' and claim 'new light,' which we tried to show them is really the 'outer darkness' in which Christendom in general is discomforted. Our discussions of these differences were conducted in a most kindly manner, yet we fear not to any great profit to the disaffected, who seemed determined to hold to and to magnify their differences rather than to prefer harmony and seeing eye to eye. The beauties of the Divine Plan, once seen, they saw no more and seemed not to desire to see them again. We urged upon all the cultivation of love and humility and prayer and study as being all that could be counseled under the circumstances. The loyal ones expressed themselves as greatly strengthened, and incidentally mentioned that they had taken the *Vow, while, so far as they knew, none of those who had turned aside had done so." - Watch. 1 July 1909, pages 198 (from the article "Brother Russell's European Tour", under the heading "Belfast, Dublin, And Homeward"); emphasis mine
*Vow (Zion's Watch Tower, 15 October 1908, page 317):
(1) Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. May thy rule come into my heart more and more, and thy will be done in my mortal body. Relying on the assistance of thy promised grace to help in every time of need, through Jesus Christ our Lord, I register this Vow.
(2) Daily will I remember at the throne of heavenly grace the general interests of the harvest work, and particularly the share which I myself am privileged to enjoy in that work, and the dear co-laborers at the Bible House at Allegheny and everywhere.
(3) I vow to still more carefully, if possible, scrutinize my thoughts and words and doings, to the intent that I may be the better enabled to serve thee, and thy dear flock.
(4) I vow to thee that I will be on the alert to resist everything akin to Spiritism and Occultism, and that remembering that there are but the two masters, I shall resist these snares in all reasonable ways, as being of the Adversary.
(5) I further vow that, with the exceptions below, I will at all times and in all places, conduct myself towards those of the opposite sex in private exactly as I would do with them in public--in the presence of a congregation of the Lord's people.
(6) And so far as reasonably possible I will avoid being in the same room with any of the opposite sex alone, unless the door to the room stand wide open.
(7) Exceptions in the case of Brethren: wife, children, mother and natural sisters. In the case of Sisters: husband, children, father and natural brothers.
Opposition to 'the Vow' had evidenced itself the year previous to the visit to Ireland. According to Russell, these ones were not prepared to force themselves to see "eye to eye" and become like "the loyal ones". A lengthy article in Zion's Watch Tower, 15 October 1908 (page 314, "What the Word Vow Signifies") began:
"IT seems evident that a few ordinarily bright brethren have missed their education as respects the meaning of the word 'Vow'; or else, that our great Adversary, opposed to the Vow recently suggested in these columns, is using every means to confuse their minds, to disorder their judgment in respect to it. The said few appear to be awfully distressed by the Vow and protest vociferously against it, against those who take it, and against the Editor for advising it. Their arguments are amusing, ridiculous and self-contradictory; but with all their brightness these brethren fail to see this. We pray for them a still wider opening of the eyes of their understanding, and in harmony with our prayers we proceed to discuss this subject, condescending to details which should be quite unnecessary; our excuse is, love for the brethren, and a clear realization that they are taking a wrong stand, supporting a wrong standard, and overlooking the fact that there are but two Princes or Leaders--the Prince of Light and the Prince of Darkness."
So, the "few ordinarily bright brethren" either didn't know the meaning of the word 'Vow', or Satan ("our great Adversary") had confused their minds. On top of that, their arguments were "amusing, ridiculous and self-contradictory". Having set the scene to his advantage, by questioning their ability to think properly and suggesting they may be under the influence of the Devil, he continues at great length to argue his side of the issue. Some selected examples of unnamed "brethren" who manifest less than holy attitudes are given. I get the impression that this is to give us a "them and us", "black and white" presentation suggesting that those who are against 'the Vow' must be on the 'wrong' side. Never mind the concerns that were growing within the movement that the Ecclesias were becoming more and more Russell-centric, with less and less ability to come to one's own conclusions of what constitutes doctrinal 'truth'.
I wonder what Russell would have thought in his young days, questioning his own family's brand of Christianity, had he been accused of being an "independent thinker"? No doubt loyal JWs and modern-day Bible Students are thankful that he was! -
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They will be DFing me soon for apostasy...
by RayPublisher inwell i figured i should give you all an update.
they will be dfing me soon for apostasy.
it is not a huge surprise and i am not afraid nor "shaking in my boots", however i will admit it is stressful right now.
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JWB
JJ, I've just finished watching video parts 1-3 of your tribunal. Thank you for having the courage to go along to meet with the WT representatives even though you didn't have to.
You have provided a two-fold service: (1) Documentary evidence of how these tribunals work, and (2) given others a 'witness' concerning TTATT. You have also provided those WT representatives some much needed info which hopefully may help at least one of them to take notice. Maybe I'm wrong in my observations, but the younger man to your left looked to me as if he was quite absorbed in what you had to say.
I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of the tribunal proceedings.
You can give yourself a huge pat on the back for letting your 'light shine'!
All the best,
JWB -
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Washington Post Story on Romney and his Morman background.
by Balaamsass inlisa miller belief watch mitt romneys hard-hearted twist on the mormon work ethicview photo gallery mormon in america: the mormon story is a quintessentially american tale, writes on faith columnist lisa miller.
tooltile ad begintooltile ad end /article tool bar by lisa miller, published: september 20 for ap news registry the washington post /for ap news registry /byline sometimes, when mitt romney steps in it, as he did this week , its helpful to look to his religion for clues as to why.
not because romney (or any man) is a perfect reflection of his faith, but because romney is shaped by the teachings of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and that church happens to have a historic horror of dependency on the state.. when romney says, buffoonishly, that 47 percent of americans will vote for barack obama because they are dependent upon government .
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JWB
"Why our family left the Mormon church"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a989OOSOycw(This is a very interesting comparison that JWs should watch)
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According to today's JW standards, would Jesus be considered an apostate or opposer?
by I_love_Jeff inwhat rules in the elder's manual would jesus be charged with if he were here today?
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JWB
Oh, yes, Jesus obviously didn't appreciate the name 'Jehovah' (and therefore could not have witnessed properly about him?)! He always addressed God as 'heavenly father'.
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According to today's JW standards, would Jesus be considered an apostate or opposer?
by I_love_Jeff inwhat rules in the elder's manual would jesus be charged with if he were here today?
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JWB
I don't know about Jesus, but what about the Christians?
"But they have heard it rumored about *you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the [solemn] customs." - Acts 21:21 (NWT); *Christians
It seems the Christians left off at least some teachings "peculiar to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses" (ie the Jewish nation - Isaiah 43:10). -
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Who are the "glorious ones"?
by JWB inwho are the "glorious ones"?.
* 'doxas' (greek strongs #1391) 'glories'/'glorious beings' (the new greek english interlinear new testament), or 'angels'.. .
daring, self-willed, they do not tremble at *glorious ones but speak abusively, whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, [not doing so] out of respect for jehovah.
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JWB
Bobcat, et al, thanks for your input. And what an interesting post from Leolaia. Blondie has pretty much shown the position of the WTS in its hammering home to the R&F that the 'glorious ones' are the elders; I've added a few references of my own below. Goodness knows how many times the case of what happened to the opposers of Moses has been brought up to scare the R&F into submission!
DOXAS
www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1391&t=NASB
2 PETER 2:10
www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Pe&c=2&v=10&t=NASB#conc/10
JUDE 1:8
www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jud&c=1&v=8&t=NASB#conc/8
ALL OCCURRENCES
I've found no references in connection with 'doxas' to elders or apostles being referred to as "glorious ones".
www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1391&t=NASB
The only glory applicable to Christians is to all:
"The glory [doxas] which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one just as We are one." - John 17:22 (NASB)
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WTS VIEW OF "GLORIOUS ONES"
"[2 Peter] 2:10-13. While 'glorious ones,' that is, Christian elders, have faults and may err at times, we must not speak abusively of them.--Heb. 13:7, 17." - Watch. 15 Nov 2008, page 22, paragraph 9 ("Highlights From the Letters of James and of Peter")
"Since even the most loyal and devoted Christians are imperfect, when an appointed servant makes a mistake, let us continue to do 'all things free from murmurings.' (Philippians 2:14) How sad it would be if we were to follow the poor example of a few in the first-century Christian congregation! According to the disciple Jude, false teachers of that day were 'disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones.' Moreover, those wrongdoers were 'murmurers, complainers about their lot in life.' (Jude 8, 16) May we reject the path followed by murmuring complainers and fix our thoughts on the fine things that come to us through the 'faithful slave.' Let us appreciate the goodness of Jehovah’s organization and 'keep doing all things free from murmurings.' - Watch. 15 Jul 2006, pages 21-22, paragraph 12 ("Focus on the Goodness of Jehovah’s Organization")