Posts by OBVES

20

Muslims Influenced by WBTS

by cameo-d in

scientific study of religion volume 9 number 4/winter1970.

several details of doctrine are too similar to be coincidental.

there is some evidence of direct contact between the two groups.

I am not from Jehovahs Witness Organization but what I know the Watchtower teaches I can say the Muslim religion is of different type religion and it is not in line with the true teachings of the Bible.

What I feel is that in those years 1930s the Bible Students were on the move and known very much by the active and attractive teachings which could be a cause some other people tried to imitate them to some degree to keep his followers in and pull in new followers and be also attractive to the outside world.

The predictions of the end of the world keep believing people in high mood and give them energy and endurance .

I know of that as I have spent years dealing with the predictions of the end of the world. The present prediction I have for 2011 AD already energizes my life and I see a difference .

The true christianity is inseperable from the end-of- the world predictions.If you don't deal with the end-time predictins your religion might be dead.

10

Scriptures the Gibbering Body Wished Were Never Written...

by Darklighter in

jw
friends

i posted this over at http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/8646/master/1/ too... (that's a good site for all you who are looking for a replacement to jwd).

i was doing some research last night, and found out that luke 21:8 has only been specifically commented on once in the last 40 years in the watchtower!

see if you can guess why... .

OBVES

Sure they can if they live in the time preceding the end of the world soon .

The wisemen - astrologers from the East were able to calculate the first coming of the Messiah- Matthew 2.1-4.

So the more those who serve the true God Yahweh having the Bible at their disposal can find the time when the second coming of Jesus may take place.

Don't confuse the Tenses Jesus uses when speaking.

At the time he was speaking - Matthew 24.36 only God the Father knew the time of the end-time era .

Acts 1.7 is misused of the spiritual ignorance today . Jesus was speaking to the disciples back then who saw him . He was not speaking to those who will live at the end-time era we live today.

How about Matthew 24.48-50 ? Most ignore these verses that clearly imply the faithful servant will know the time of Lord's coming.

10

Scriptures the Gibbering Body Wished Were Never Written...

by Darklighter in

jw
friends

i posted this over at http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/8646/master/1/ too... (that's a good site for all you who are looking for a replacement to jwd).

i was doing some research last night, and found out that luke 21:8 has only been specifically commented on once in the last 40 years in the watchtower!

see if you can guess why... .

OBVES

You will not win your arguments with superficial applying of the Scriptures to the Watchtower .

Matthew 24.45 states that there will be a faithful servant that has his sheep to feed in the end-times !

Just like a sheperd has a total control over his flock and cares about it we must identify such organization today that fits the description.And the only one I see fitting this is the Jehovah's Witness organization.You will not find a replacement to that : the other christian organization. If there is none ,then ,we don't have the end-times yet .

Luke 9.49-50 states about two categories of end-time servants :

-one small group of servants united in one body and one seperate indepenedent servant and these two must be identified before the end of the world can take place .

That one single servant cannot establish another competing organization and those who share his views can be indpendent as well.

If you are not sharing views of any of these two that God Yahweh uses in His End-Time Salvation Plan you are in bad situation.

Note that all of the class of 144000 represent Christ and there few of them and you need to search this out but it is a very difficult process . So many take an easy route and don't bother to do that.

False Messiahs and false prophets are among main-stream religions where many were deceived .

Popes claim to be like Christ and clergymen who are priests .
True priests : 144000 represent the body of Christ - these are true messiahs- Obadiah 1.21.

You have to find out we are in the end-time era and then find who is approved of God Yahweh by dates in the timetable and then those opposing the true servants who teach falsehood to nations are false messiahs ,saviors,prophets-Matthew 24.11 speaks about many deceived .It cannot be in Jehovah's Witness organization but in the whole christendom that is against Jehovah's Witnesses .

My posts give ample proofs where there are false prophets today .

Christ came spiritually in the end-times through his true servants but that is usurped by the popes and priests who are many .

Luke 21.28 is not against any Jehovah's Witness .Once we find they are the best christian religious organization - which they really are - the Scripture cannot be against them.

10

The end in 2014?

by ImFreeatlast in

i read this disturbing news article today.

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=5060 the part about the grandmother killing her grandson was bad enough.

and i do note that it doesnt say that she was a witness... having said that it is interesting that she was convinced by the witnesses that the end was going to come in 2014..... has anyone else heard of a similar story?

OBVES

Don't make the mistake most people do ! You look first for those who have the best understanding of the Bible and teach others and then you check if they make predictions of the end of the world . You check if Daniel 12.4,9 is being fulfilled before our eyes today and can assume rightly if we are in the end-time era or not .

Read my posts to learn why the present evil order may end sooner than in 2014 AD : in the year 2011 AD .

Is the Watchtower that guides the organization predicts the year 2014 AD ? It counts what they teach .

70

Name something that JWs believe in that isn't in the Bible

by Awakened at Gilead in

my favorites are:.

"paradise earth": not in the bible.

"great crowd" of "other sheep" - two unrelated texts... put them together, and voila!, you just changed the destiny of millions!.

OBVES

Read my posts on this whole forum and alt.bible ( usenet ) and you can notice how I differ with the Jehovahs Witness beliefs a lot and yet they as a whole stand out as the best christian religious organization on the face of our planet earth today.

A few good examples in difference:

Jesus Christ rose in the same body ! They believe otherwise .

144000 servants are all menservants: the greatest christian men ; not a single christian woman included.

The universe is more than 15 billion years old according to my understanding of the Bible.

They don't quite understand what is the resurrection body .

24

How do JW's arrive at 537BCE for the release of the jews by Cyrus?

by digderidoo in

from all of my research so far on the 607 issue the only argument that jw's have for it is the 70 year period counting backwards from 537bce.

as 539bce is the accepted date for cyrus conquering babylon, why do they say 537bce is the date he released the jews and not 538bce or 536bce for instance?.

paul.

OBVES

Anyone that denies the importance of the year 1914 AD in the end -time prophecies of the Bible denies God's salvation plan .

Otherwise I think you will not be able to explain the Book of Revelation as it can be divided into halves :

Revelation 1-11: 1914 AD - 1984 AD - 1991 AD +

Revelation 12-22: 1914 AD - 1984 AD - 1991 AD +

You will not be able to confirm we are in the end-time era . To do so we must have a timeline that is a copy of the times when Jesus Christ and his disciples lived and taught the true christian religion. By the virtue of the timeline we arrive at we confirm God's Bible is for our times and that the true christianity was revived after a long break since 150 AD.

Psalms 119 and 150 determine the end-phase of the ancient true christianity: 119 AD - 150 AD.

96 AD + 10 years = 106 AD - Revelation 2.10 about 10 days .

106 AD - 119 AD = 13 years 119 AD - 150 AD = 31 years 106 AD = 1991 AD or 1914 AD

1991 AD + 13 years = 2004 AD 2004 AD + 31 years = 2035 AD

1914 AD - 31 years = 1883 AD

1883 AD + 152 years = 2035 AD

The starting dates are 607 BC and 455 BC for counting 70 weeks of Daniel 9.24.

455 BC + 70 weeks leads to 36 AD.

607 BC + 70 weeks leads to 1984 AD

607 BC - 152 years = 455 BC

If we add all numerical values of the 22 - letter Hebrew alphabet we get 253 .

And the first numerical value can be omitted ( I have explained that already ).

The 252 is left that represents " 7 times ". So,we can use the numerical values of the Hebrew alphabet as in Psalm 119 to count the end times. We can set up the whole chronology of mankind using this method with others known to me.

2011 AD - 2+3+4+5+6 = 1991 AD 1991 AD - 7 times as 7 years = 1984 AD 1984 AD - 7+8+9+10 = 1950 AD 1950 AD - 11+12+13 = 1914 AD ! 14+15+16+17 = 62 years : 1883 AD - 1914 AD and 2004 AD - 2035 AD ( 2 x 31 years = 62 years ).

1884 AD + 100 years = 2004 AD ( 18+19+20+21+22 = 100 )

24

How do JW's arrive at 537BCE for the release of the jews by Cyrus?

by digderidoo in

from all of my research so far on the 607 issue the only argument that jw's have for it is the 70 year period counting backwards from 537bce.

as 539bce is the accepted date for cyrus conquering babylon, why do they say 537bce is the date he released the jews and not 538bce or 536bce for instance?.

paul.

OBVES

These are the basic dates we must use to set up the timelines when Christ and his first followers lived and taught the true christian religion and our end-time era.

607 BC ,587 BC , 537 BC,517 BC , 457 BC,455 BC .

457 BC + 70 weeks of Daniel 9 ... 420 years + 30 years or 35 years = 7 BC-2 BC or 1 BC if we add 36 years + 70 years = 70 AD

455 BC + 70 weeks of Daniel 9 ... as 490 years = 36 AD

*** - God's name represents " 7 times " and also 2 x 36 : 2772 ----- 27 (7 Times ) - 72 (2 x36 ). Check my earlier posts on this Jehovahs-Witness Discussion Forum and also a usenet group : alt.apocalypse.

Two times 36 years can be added in calculations.

457 BC + 420 years as 7 times = 37 BC + 36 years = 1 BC 70 AD + 36 years = 106 AD

This timeline can be set up :

7 BC - 2 BC - 29 AD - 33 AD - 36 AD - 70 AD - 106 AD

607 BC + 70 weeks of Daniel 9 .. + 7 times as 2520 years + 70 years = 1914 AD - 1984 AD + extra 7 years = 1991 AD

587 BC + 70 weeks of Daniel 9 ... 70 years + 2520 years = 2004 AD + 7 years extra = 2011 AD

537 BC + 7 weeks of Daniel 9 .... + 2520 years + 7 years = 1984 AD - 1991 AD

517 BC + 7 weeks of Daniel 9 ... + 2520 years + 7 years = 2011 AD

Our end-time era :

1879 AD ( for 7 BC ) - 1884 AD ( for 2 BC ) - 1914 AD ( for 29 AD or 106 AD ) - 1950 AD ( for 70 AD ) - 1984 AD ( for 36 AD ) - 1988 AD ( for 33 AD )

1991 AD ( for 29 AD or 106 AD )

607 BC - 587 BC = 20 years = 1991 AD - 2011 AD

607 BC - 455 BC = 152 years: 3 BC - 150 AD or 1883 AD - 2035 AD.

607 BC - 457 BC = 150 years : 2 BC - 149 AD or 1884 AD - 2034 AD

8

144,000 symbolism.

by iamthewolf5562 in

ok. i have a question that was never answered for me when i was going to meetings.

humorous answers are appreciated, but if anyone knows the real answer to this, i'd appreciate it, just so my curiousity will shut up.. the witnesses teach that the book of revelation is a book of symbols.

that's how they determined that hell is symbolic of being dead forever and that hell literal doesn't really exist.

OBVES

I wrote on this subject , check my posts .

The number 144000 seems to be a literal number and the number of 12 tribes is literal .

We interpret the Bible with other related verses of the Bible-Isaiah 28.9-10.

The number can be counted as it is a fixed number of 144000 great christian menservants ( not a single woman in this number) .

The other crowd cannot be counted as the other remaining saved people will grow indefinitely in the future in the Paradise.And they are subject to second death in case somebody disobeys. So the number is not fixed .It can change in the eternity. The number of 144000 is unchangeable for ever; they will be gods .

It is possible that since these 144000 are a tithe which is 1/10 part of Israel ( spiritual one ) we can consider this possibility :

The great ones of the Old Testament in the number 1 440 000 will be raised at the beginning as well.

They would be the second special class as they would attain a high perfection closest to those 144000 and would not be subject to the second death for longer time and after them go all other saved christians and their number cannot be counted as the number is not steady already at the beginning after God's Kingdom is established on earth.

So , we would have :

Jesus Christ as God + his 144000 menservants as gods = they will never die as they are not subject to the second death. After them there is a class of high servants who are 1 440 000 in number and they will hold high office working for Jesus Christ -King and his 144000 servants -kings. Then we have regular workers in the ministries of the new world government- they cannot be counted at all as their number will be subject to change in urgent case.

Then we have pagan nations who will be the last category of saved people.

Read how I understand the resurrection body and the end-time era.

Jesus Christ and his 144000 men immortal unconditionally for ever - 2011 AD +++++++++++

2011 AD - 2034 AD - 1 440 000 servants of the Old Testament not subject to the second death in this period only.From 2034 AD forwards they will be subject to death if disobey.

2011 AD forwards - All other christians subject to death if disobey

2011 AD - 2012 AD - God's Kingdom to be established 2011 AD - 2012 AD - 2034 AD - God's Kingdom proclaimed to nations on earth.

2034 AD - 3034 AD - Christ rules for 1000 years with his 144000 servants in the Paradise on earth.

Check my latest posts on usenet : alt.apocalypse

37

I AM STILL A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS!!!

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

apparently they never got my letter which i sent like a year ago.

i had corresponded with them by e-mail to ask them if i was 'announced' from the platform but the po was unaware.

now, they want me to send letter, again.

OBVES

Whatever reasons and I have more and better reasons to be not in their organization they are number one christian organization on the face of the planet earth.

Read my posts about the times we are living now on this Jehovahs-Witness forum and some usenet discussion groups : alt.bible,alt.religion.jehovahs-witn,alt.apocalypse to learn how they are outstanding according to the Bible.

If you know me I am predicting based on the Bible the end of the present world order in 2011 AD and Jehovah's Witnesses may jump for joy as it is clearly shown they are in God's favor over all other christian organizations.

If you leave the Jehovahs Witness organization you must have better views than they have that can make you feel comfortable.

I noticed in my past many Jehovah's Witnesses that left the organization went wrong way - they jumped from the frying pan into the fire !

They made things worse !

If you leave them you must find another better religiuos organization or another choice is to be on your own which is a very risky step . You must have a good reason based on the Bible to be an independent christian.

Under no circumstances you should join any other religious organization as they are not better than Jehovahs Witness organization.

Harold Camping who wrote a small book : " We Are Almost There " ( he also came up with the year 2011 AD as the year of the end of the world ) teaches that all christians must get out their churches .I am teaching much the same making some exception by excluding Jehovah's Witnesses.

Another preacher that got my attention is Ronald Weinland with his book : " 2008 . God's Final Witness ".

Since we are so close to the year 2011 AD your whole attention should be directed at finding who is teaching the Truth of the Bible and you consider those who predict the end of the world and what these preachers teach and is what they teach is in agreement with the Bible.

Your leaving Jehovahs Witness organization can make your situation worse .

16

What's the crap with the" NEW LIGHT"???

by paybacktime19 in

OBVES

Since the Bible was completed God Yahweh ceased giving His new inspired revelations and nothing can be added to the Bible.

We study the Bible and the Bible stays the same book while our understanding of the Bible grows and new better understandings come out into light and we must adjust oir views to the new discoveries in the Bible. It is as simple as that . The new light is a positive phenomenon and we must deal with this rightly.

I began my religios life as a catholic and now I am an independent christian for years and if I compare my present views to the views I had back then as a catholic there is a huge difference.

What I changed in my religious life is more than all changes the Watchtower has ever made ! And I am happy with my new religious views and how good it is to have a new spiritual light !