outnfree

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Posts by outnfree

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  5

  Does this help?

  by openminded in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today our society raises us to believe that obedience is good and disobedience is bad.

  we are taught that we should all do what were told and that the people that are disobedient are almost always bad people.

  society tells us this, but it is not true.

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  outnfree

  openminded,
  Thanks for posting this.
  I'm printing it. It's something to mull over more than once, I think. In order to help one from being lulled into obeying authority just because it IS authority. Understanding WHY we obey is so very important. Making sure that we are true to ourselves when we obey and that what we are obeying is worthy of our obedience are keys to keeping sane (if I'm not taking this too far). Mob mentality can rule in even seemingly inconsequential things. But if we go along unthinkingly, we might later experience shame and inner turmoil. Yes, this is important information.
  Thanks again.
  outnfree
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  12

  Blanket Judgements and other JW phenomenon

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mind was wandering last night and i started thinking about the way 'faithful' jws issue blanket condemnations.

  i wondered if it's a personality thing that is just reinforced by the jw mantra of "we're always right and we're the only true religion etc.

  " or if it's a jw or other fundy religious phenomenon.. here's two examples, feel free to add your own.. when i was about 17, i started visiting nyc regularly, and attending different congregations (wow!

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  outnfree

  Sisters should not wear open-toed shoes in service. Only women of ill repute do this. -- Related to me by an opinionated older sister who said it's what a CO told her years ago.

  And PAINTING those toenails peeping out of those shoes??!! Forget about it!

  LOL
  outnfree
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  66

  i am new

  by knight in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have read the various posts here an i have my own story to tell i amstill a witness not as active as i used to be but stillfaithful i think the main problem that jws have is that they put c.o's m.s's elders and the like on pedestals and when you do that you set yourself up for a letdown and when that person does something you dont think is right you are letdown but one should not let this block his/her relationship with jehovah.

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  outnfree

  *S*,
  I wish you hadn't categorized this thread as having contained a "debate" of any sort. There is much [good] information here and searching questions that remain unanswered but no frank exchange of ideas.

  I would like to thank you, crossroads, claudia, larc & latte for your support. Likely I should have taken a page from larc's wisdom. That is, to just succinctly restate my question(s) and not really expect any sort of answer.

  Just like in the ministry, there are responsive and "not interested" ones. Chris is not interested in examining her religion in depth to be able to discern the truth. She is comfortable where she is. So be it. If she changes her mind, she now knows where to make a start.

  outnfree
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  11

  any similar experience?

  by chris_mj_gum18 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm also a newbie & was wondering if any brother or sister had gone thru this same experience?

  any advice is welcome.

  one knows 1 co 7:39 quite well among the witnesses.

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  outnfree

  My mistake, I guess, but I have NEVER heard the expression "divided household" used to describe a situation where the child is a Witness brought up by worldly parents or the other way around, either. Though I suppose it could be.
  I'm glad you cleared that up, Chris.
  As for Jehovah and Jesus using imperfect humans to accomplish God's will, that is certainly so, for imperfect humans are all that exists on earth.
  And I agree with you that if the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is truly from God, it will stand. But I do not believe it is, or that it will. Only time will tell and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
  I am sorry for your disappointment with the Brothers. I did not have a believing mate, and I always thought the greatest betrayal for any sister would be to have married in the faith, according to the Scriptures, and then have the brother commit adultery. How very crushing! And I knew several sisters to whom this very thing happened. You think you've done things Jehovah's way, and yet bad things happen to EVERYONE. Sounds like none of these brothers would have been good marriage material for you and if you're still looking, I sincerely hope that you find someone worthy of you.
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  19

  JWs and Alcohol Abuse/Addition/Escapism

  by LovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i first started studying in 84 at the ripe ol age of 29, i was told oft and repeatedly that jws did everything in moderation, and nothing sinful or unbiblical.

  apparently, like everything else, they have added footnotes to the scriptures that say not to get drunk, as that seems to be their only "legitimate" (read, unregulated) escape from the reality that is the witchtrowel babble and trash sectciety.. there was one elder in my first congregation that reeked of alcohol even first thing in the morning at field service.

  i was told by someone "born in the truth" that he had a "body chemistry problem, whereby when he would sweat it would smell like alcohol, and he did sweat profusely...hence the reddenned face.

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  outnfree

  Thanks, LovesDubs!

  I am married to a native Spaniard so drinking is a familiar part of this family's environment, and my grand-niece has never seen either of us drunk. My husband's very European viewpoint is to let them learn to drink at home -- with watered down wine at meals, for instance -- so alcohol won't become the enticing taboo that it is for many adolescents. So my children have or will taste many kinds of alcoholic beverages over the years. So to us (and I hope we're conveying this to her!) it's not "demon rum", but neither is it something to be abused.

  I think I'll stay the course and try very hard not to become too anxious over the whole issue. I do not want to be like my OWN mother who, because SHE cannot drink more than two beers without becoming sloppy, thinks anyone who drinks virtually any amount of ANYTHING is going to become drunk and possibly an alcoholic. It infuriates me -- because I can drink at least two STRONG drinks before I'm drunk!

  I DO want to trust her to grow up to make wise choices with her own brain!

  Thanks again,
  outnfee
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  10

  ALCOHOLICS

  by jezebel influence in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  does anyone have experience with alcohol abusing family members?.

  what can you do if they dont want to change?what do you do if they have chld(ren) being neglected and the aothorities wont help.. also what if you suspect other mental problems causing anger out bursts-threatend suicide etc.. sorry this is such a quick note as ive been up all night,but i would.

  truly appreciate any advice or experience as this could be life-death as she drink drives with 3yr old .. thankyou friends

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  outnfree

  Well, 'nuff said about the setting her up then, Jez. You'll do what you can, if you can, I'm sure.

  But DON'T LET AUNTY get to you with the guilt. Aunty is an enabler and encouraging you all to become/remain one, too! Jesus didn't give the guy who wanted to go home and bury his father first before following Jesus more than one chance, now, did he? You needn't give your mother who wants to go get loaded first rather than take proper care of her daughter more than one chance either!

  Tell Aunty for me that Jesus loved the little children.

  Yes, it's TOUGH love. TOUGH now. LOVE later. Whenever she gets around to doing the right thing.

  Come here any time to vent, Jez. And stay strong!

  outnfree
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  2

  'Look After Widows and Orphans' June15 2001WT

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  'look after orphans and widows in their tribulation' june 15 2001 wt.

  this article is so poor its unbelievable.

  pity the r+f will likely miss the insidious undercurrent that basically the wts isnt going to do anything for widows and orphans.. after describing how in bible times widows and orphans were looked after the article then went on to relate how they are looked after by the wts.

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  outnfree

  Gee, should we be surprised that the Bible got it right and the WTBTS got it WRONG?!!!

  I agree that the subtle emphasis here is on non-material support rather than helping widows and orphans with one's pocketbook. I, too, noticed that the one brother was helping the widow with a home,
  but still the subtlety is there: "However, economic assistance is sometimes needed as well. It implies that economic assistance is not usually needed which is false.
  (The F&DS would rather you opened your pocketbooks only to help the Society and your own families -- in that order if at all possible.)

  I was disgusted by how the elders in my congregation fell short in offering even emotional aid to an older sister and her elder husband who was terminally ill. Both diehard, from the 40's witnesses, she took loving care of her husband as she felt she should. I often offered to take turns caring for him, but she said modesty would prevent him from accepting help from a sister. What he REALLY wanted, however, was for the brothers to take him out in field service in his wheelchair. She mentioned this almost every time I saw her, in or out of the hall, so I know it wasn't being done. COLD, COLD, COLD. Now he's dead and I don't know how she's doing because she, of course, can no longer speak to me, because I've "left Jehovah." (DA'd myself).

  outnfree
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  25

  Psychics

  by LovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have any of you gone to have psychic readings?

  or tarot cards or whtever since being sprung or even while in the borg?

  there is one on the tv all the time, maybe shes just in the florida area, sounds bahamian.. "sooo wat areya waitin fooor?

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  outnfree

  OK. When I was in about 4th grade, I had a friend whose mother was big into astrology and in addition to having all these weird mags around the house, Leslie was allowed to have a Ouija Board (which none of the rest of us could have!. Naturally, we all wanted to try it out. So one day we did. We asked typical pre-teen questions: Does so-n-so love me? Who's my secret crush? etc. I "asked the board" who I would marry. It kept going to the letter "B" and got stuck there, or so we thought. I also asked where we would live when I got married and it spelled out "D - E - ...T" but I pushed it to "N - V - E - R" because we were big into horsebackriding then and I didn't want to live in "DETROIT" which is where I "felt" the plastic "Ouija" thing was going to "send" me.

  Fast forward to age 18. I was back from school in Europe and was invited to a party being held by some of my co-workers. It would be a good chance for a reunion so I accepted not knowing that the entertainment was a psychic reading for everyone present. So I went in quite skeptical. (Also knowing that this was not good, from my suspended-at-the-time JW Bible study.) Still, I went into the kitchen where the psychic proceeded to ask me who there was in my life with a name beginning with the letter B. I replied, "My dad is Bob, my brother is Bobby, I dated two Bobby's in high school..." And she said "No, no. It is not any of them. It is someone with a letter 'B'" I told her I had no idea who she was talking about. Then she goes on to tell me that I will be travelling TO Europe soon. I corrected her. "No, I just got BACK from Europe." She said, "Yes, but you will be returning shortly." Now, I didn't know how that could be true. I was 18, had spent all my savings to go to school there the first time, and had a lowly job as a telex operator (OOOOH! Am I dating myself!!!) So I was not very impressed with my reading.

  Lo! and behold. A couple of weeks later I find a different job where not only my telex skills are needed, but also my French skills -- which is why I went to Europe in the first place. Who do you think I meet there? My husband. Baltasar. Nicknamed "B" because in America a handle like Baltasar is even odder than the homophone to "Bea"!!!
  We are married 23 years this July. We have lived in the Detroit metropolitan area for most of our marriage (only relocating to Canada for 7 years, then returning). I had the reading in July of '74. We went to Spain together in May of '76.

  Damn scary!
  outnfree
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  20

  Faith V Works.....my 2 cents..

  by TheApostleAK in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so what you guys are saying is that i can beat & rape my wife, bash my children, break the law, be a violent drunk, and as long as i have faith that jesus christ was the messiah and have faith in jehovah god, i can still be declared righteous????.

  read carefully james 2:14-24. or don't you understand it or don't believe it?.

  abraham and rahab were both declared righteous because of their works because they both had faith.. "faith accompanied by works"

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  outnfree

  I agree with Bigboi that faith impels one to do good works.

  Crossroads and all,
  I don't think the evil-doer was saved by faith only. As soon as the other criminal mocked Jesus, the FAITH of the evil-doer was clear:

  "[He] spoke up and rebuked him. 'Have you no fear of God at all?' he said. ... 'Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom.'" -- Luke 23:40-42, JB

  To me, the rebuking of his fellow criminal was the work following the evil-doer's faith in Jesus as God's Messiah. The resulting plea after his rebuking work was his hope that his faith would be rewarded.

  outnfree
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  28

  Oh. So You're A Seventy-Fiver Then, Are You?

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone take any responsibility for what happened in 1975?

  maybe i should say what didn't happen in 1975!.

  i mentioned 1975 to my still devout but not so fundamental jw mum.

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  outnfree

  AK,

  I remember figuring out 2004 years ago by using the day for a year thing and prophecies in Daniel? Can't remember how now.

  HOWEVER, unlike the GB I had the sense to keep my predictions to myself as I knew it couldn't be that simple or everyone would understand it and, besides, Jesus said NOBODY but Jehovah knew the day and hour (and, presumably, the year!).

  Guess I was too humble!!! LOL

  Crossroads,
  I agree that having a new date would suit the Society just fine. Even better if it's just whispered about and they don't ever have to print anything...

  Englishman,
  I missed '75 as luck would have it, otherwise I WOULD have been a seventy-fiver, which means I never would have gotten officially "in" and wouldn't have had to struggle over getting "out"!
  Regardless, let's be thankful that you'n'me
  are
  outnfree!
  Cheers!