Posts by Phizzy

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

That is my attitude to to J.W relatives and old J.W friends who I feel need the membership of the Org. for their own well-being.

To these ones, it would be devastating if they did not have the association and activity involved in being a member, as they have NOTHING ELSE in life, having been subject all their lives to the strict, extremely rigid control of the Org.

If they left, or even became merely inactive and non-attenders, they would lose the respect they have from their fellow J.W's, and the support and friendship they have from them, which as we know, is entirely dependent upon you being seen as a "strong" member.

But as you showed Joe, all of that can remain, with little or virtually no real effort anymore for those who wish to take J.W life a little easier. It is now no problem, your fellow J.W's will either think you are doing more than you are, or if they are aware you are doing a little less than in past years, will make excuses for you.

Again , this will hasten the demise of the Org, but at least those J.W's who are as I described above may live out their lives retaining their support network, and have peace of mind.

60

The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

by aqwsed12345 in

1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

Phizzy

" the idea that only 144,000 will go to heaven or rule with Christ is based on a selective reading of the text that does not account for the larger symbolic context of Revelation."

Agreed, but you are ignoring what the Writer makes plain, he expect ALL his predictions, and the fulfillment of his symbolic words, to come about "shortly", they did NOT, so are all failed Predictions.

To expect a later fulfillment of already failed predictions is a very silly idea that many a Christian falls foul of.

And I repeat :

The idea of the "Great Apostasy" is a Myth.

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

All of this will thankfully hasten the demise of the J.W Org.

Basically the Rank and File J.W's are the Workforce of a Business Corporation. A bored and unmotivated Workforce produces the minimum possible to remain in the Employ of the Corporation. Such Corporations File for Bankruptcy in short order if they do not turn things around.

That is what we are seeing looming for the Org. now, moribund as is all Organised Religion, but also having a failed Business Model, they cannot go on much longer. Yes, with all the Tax breaks etc. they will limp on longer than the conventional business, but their days ARE numbered !

48

The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

by Kelley959 in

an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

Phizzy

The J.W org. claims something along the lines of taking in to account when the new Moon is visible in Jerusalem, and working from that to when the Passover would have been celebrated. Glibly ignoring the fact that they cannot predict the Weather, certainly a year or more hence. And glibly ignoring the other signs that were taken in to account to decide on the Date of Passover.

They do not actually use the same method as the Jews of the 1st century C.E used, they just do their own thing, as usual. Ignoring Facts, Evidence, and even Scripture.

Sadly none of this bothers any J.W who is a solid believer, I pointed this Info. out to a devout elderly J.W lady some years ago, she flounced off, throwing over her shoulder " I don't CARE if the Memorial is held on the wrong day !".

14

Another poster asked me to post this as they want to remain anonymous for the sake of the victims.

by karter in

hey karter can you post this for me?

as you know my ex wife and i adopted her brother at 7 years old when his parents passed away.. we brought him up a j.w but he left at 16 and moved in with his girlfriend.. it came out he had been interfering with our 3 daughters when they were very young.. he never got prosecuted becouse my daughters didnt want to ( i suspect their mother a hard out j.w has something to do with that) so basicly he walked free.. latter in life he left his girlfreind comes back to the j.ws and they welcome him like the prodical son and he marries a j.w.. if anyone reading this thinks the j.ws like to hide c.s a read on.. it came to my attention recently by 2 ex elders that had read the letter that followers him when he moves congros that it says the sex bettween him and my daughters was consensual..they were under 10 years old.. this were it gets disgusting.. i approach the p.o of my old congro and ask him who wrote the letter he said he had moved by that time go see another elder .. i did he didnt know as well and said for me to ring the branch.. i did and they were not interested in changing the letter at all basicly go away.. the offender has moved congros 3 times and every time they elders think my daughters under 10 went along with this pos.. not sure what my next move is as the branch here has closed down and they operate out of a diffrent country.. if anyone wants to ask questions ill p.m the reply to you..

Phizzy

The young age of the perpetrator is no excuse for what he did, and it showed that he had paedophiliac leanings.

He is possibly still inclined that way ??? and anyway whether he has perpetrated more similar acts as an Adult , or not, he still presents a Danger to the vulnerable in the Congregation.

He needs bringing to account, and some therapy no doubt. Also this should see the full light of day, because your daughters reputations have been unjustly sullied, and must NOT remain that way !

What IS disgusting about the Org. is that after all the CSA scandals, they still have these kind of perverts in their midst, and do NOTHING to protect the Lambs in their Flock.

60

The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

by aqwsed12345 in

1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

Phizzy

The Historically Reality is that there was no single "Christianity" in the 1st Century C.E, there were a good number of competing "Christian " groups. The Epistles of John and other N.T verses make this very plain.

So there was nothing to be an Apostate from that we can view as pure or original. The Christian group that prevailed over others they considered were heretics, was the group who styled themselves as "Orthodox" , meaning "Right way".

They proceeded to corrupt Scripture, as Bart Ehrman has ably shown in his Book, and to dictate what was correct Doctrine in their view.

So this is the only late 1st Century and 2nd Century group it was possible to be an Apostate from !

And there was no continuity in the holding of doctrines and interpretations etc. in this group ! It all constantly changed.

The idea of the "Great Apostasy" is a Myth.

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

Yup, myself and many like me used to go toe to toe on Doctrine with people. I have done so with all sorts, including Vicars and Pastors etc.

I once had a chat with a Church of England Bishop, and ended up selling him the mags, we charged in those days , he asked "How much will you charge me for these ?", I replied "I will let you have them at Trade Price". LOL.

135

Rumour 144,000 literal number teaching to be abandoned at Annual Meeting

by slimboyfat in

say it ain’t so!

.

in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?

Phizzy

That, slim, is the very weak J.W argument.

I wonder if this rumour has some foundation ? many J.W's struggled to swallow the literal number idea.

One such, an eighty year old former Elder, who "stepped down" for family reasons years ago, told me, a few weeks back, he doubted it could be literal, but he added he feels ,still, that J.W's have got "most things right". Sad, in all other areas of life he uses Critical Thinking Skills , and Fact Checking properly, but gives his religion almost a total Free Pass.

How many more J.W's are there that feel this way about the 144,000 number ?

13

Witnesses after Covid shut down are increasing their calls around my neighborhood

by wozza in

jw
friends

hi all , i just had another call by a an elderly jw ,let's call him ian.. only about 3 months ago i had a young jw call and trying to talk to him i had to tone it down a bit because he did'nt seem so theocratically bright as he only offered a tract and not much else , and i've had others call since covid.. so it seems around here they are making regular calls but not like back in the day when i used to auxillary pioneer where we would go over this turf every 1 to 3 weeks in the 80's.. but back to my caller ian ,on his own , but out with a group of jw's he was quick to get around the pleasantries and and so i interrupted him tactfully to slow him down.

started with a bit of my history easing into the fact that i had my first contact with jw's with my soon to be mother-in -law who was an invalided jw ,we had many good talks about her beliefs in the early 70's.. at this point he jumps in and wants to know if i would want a study again because i told him that i once did a study with jw's back.

i carefully steered him into telling me about those days ,what was he was doing back then.

Phizzy

About ten years ago, they would be in my area, a rural one, every three months, and I would see some J.W;s going to nearby Homes on "Return Visits".

I cannot recall when I last saw them on the knock-knocks here, or even a lone J.W doing a R.V. It was pre-Covid for sure.

Back in the day when I was in, part of the C.O's job was making sure they got around their "Territory" at least every three months. Since the advent of Cart work, Covid, and no Hour requirement, I guess what few Cold Calls they do are nearby easy ones, and we in the Countryside get left in peace !

They are fast becoming an even more insignificant little Cult than they ever were, once upon a time every body knew of J.W's, and they seemed to be more numerous than they really were, with regular door knocking, and old-style Street Work where they really engaged people in discussion.

Now a half-hearted membership has the task of trying to make converts from a Public who are hardly aware of who they are, but are immediately conscious they are being accosted by some weirdo religious Nutjob.

The "Preaching Work" was never really at all efficient at making converts, and many long serving J.W's went through their whole life never making a Convert, and feeling THEN that the "work" was mainly a waste of time, and so not in any way satisfying.

Now it must dawn on them the Org. is only trying to keep them busy, wasting time doing nothing of value, of even less value than the Convict breaking rocks as part of his sentence.

The demise of the Org. cannot now be many years away, GOOD !

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

When I first left, almost two decades ago, I used to hope I would live to see the complete demise of the Evil J.W Org. I then went through a period where I was sure they would limp on for many a decade, and their final demise would happen long after I was gone.

That may well be the case, especially as I am now in my mid-70's. but a downward spiral like the one they are now in is the sort of thing that speeds up, so who knows ? The Org. has long been making it plain that they have a Cash Flow problem , yes, they are still Asset Rich, but they have sold off so much there is a point where what little they get in by further sales is insufficient to give sufficient Cash Flow.

Many a Corporation has jogged along for a while like that, and then Bang, they have to go Bust.

The first thing I did as I began to wake up, over two years before I finally walked away, was to stop my Monthly Donation. I wonder how many have now done that ? or have not increased what they donate for a long time ?

With the lack of enthusiasm and belief in the younger ones, can you see them continuing to put their hands in their pockets and donate anything significant ?

With half-hearted members being now the majority, being joined by former Enthusiasts who wake up a bit at least, from being merely Moribund, the Org. is now Terminally ill, and the Prognosis does not give it so very long !

GOOD !