i found this video interesting, from the smithsonian channel.
it explains how commonplace crucifixions were with specific mention of the patebelum crosspiece.
https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/videos/crucifixion-became-a-very-popular-roman-spectator-sport/69754?an=history.
The J.W argument, in the light of this Vid. looks even more strange, apart from their dodgy use of 1st Century Greek, Stauros, and all that,I heard them say that " Jehovah would not allow his son to be put to death on a Pagan Symbol".
Well, the Cross in various forms was used in much of Pagandom, but this in the case of the Crucifixion, was simply an instrument of torture, and eventual death. It would not have been thought of as a religious symbol by the Romans, or the Jews, of the time.
the 2019 report is out:.
https://download-a.akamaihd.net/files/media_publication/29/syr19_e.pdf.
the “average publisher” figure for individual countries has made a comeback!
I think your Calcs. must be very close to the reality for Scotland Slim. In an earlier Post, you said " but they are doing well compared with many other groups in secularising societies."
I wonder if you have any ideas on why the J.W's are more successful at keeping members, despite the way Society is going ?
this is from a recent article about malawi, and the caption calls the man "brother welosi mbendera".. .
Beards were never a great problem where I come from in the U.K, I wore one for years, used to give "away" Public Talks, a number of Elders in our Circuit wore beards.
The only time they made a fuss was if they wanted you on a Convention Programme or heading a Convention Dept. then, no beards. They had it in writing you see, in the Instructions from H.Q about running a Convention.
In writing yes, quoting some old Watchtower, but not a Scripture in sight !
during gerrit loesch's talk just released, he goes on a long list of the false end times predictions throughout the millennia.
i didn't expect it, but then he goes into the precursors to the bible students who, when their dates failed, changed christ's presence to have happened 'invisibly'.
then it goes right into the jws, and he reads the quote from millions now living will never die about how we can 'confidently expect' the resurrection in 1925, and then the life everlasting book that predicted 1975. of course, he doesn't say how it's still going on, namely with the overlapping generation and its' accompanying convoluted chart, but still, this is more than they've ever said on the subject, especially recently.. it almost sounds like a forced statement, to address any backlash from people reading 'apostate lies' online, because he also says how the gb 'humbly' admitted mistakes, referencing the non-apology after 1975 that disturbed raymond franz.
True Paley, but for PIMO's there is an opportunity to do what I did about a year before I left. This was over the membership of the Scarlet Coloured Wild beast or whatever they called the U.N.
I answered up and put it in such a way ( can't remember exactly what I said) that it appeared I was not accusing the G.B of telling Porkies, which they obviously were, but still highlighted the problem. I saw an expression of extreme doubt cross the Elder's mind as he evaluated my answer, and some in the audience looked uncomfortable, but he had to accept what I said. I hope I planted a seed or two !
PIMO's can do that, carefully phrased, with this stuff.
hope you are all well,.
i was wondering within the organisation if there are any guidelines or grounds for nullifying a baptism.
see i grew up a jehovah's witness and was baptised at age 13, i didn't get baptised for the right reasons, i felt pressured to because my friends were getting baptised at the same time.
We had a lovely young lady, baptized at around 15 years old, later went to Uni, at around 19 she had a meeting with the Elders and proved to their satisfaction she was pressured in to Baptism,and that she was mentally unstable at the time. She was self harming then.
They accepted her Baptism as invalid, and announced so at the K.H.
She left with a smile on her face, never to be seen at the K.H again, and able to have a normal relationships with her J.W family, including her grand parents. Result !
This was over 20 years ago, I would research thoroughly and see if something along these lines is still possible, and have you anything to lose by trying ? You are simply questioning the validity of your Baptism, not the religion and its teaching, so, build a case, and go for it. Good luck.
some points for awakening jw's to consider in 2020: .
"joining a cult: religious choice or psychological aberration" by dena s. davis.
some of the following characteristics are listed:.
If talking to a J.W I use an expression along the lines of " You are in an Authoritarian, Mind Control Group", let 'em argue their way out of that one !
The " Remain neutral to Politics" is also questionable when Kingdom Halls were flying ( or displaying) the National Flag in one S.A Country. Admittedly, they were required to do so by law, but I think maybe back in the days of Rutherford perhaps, they would have made a stand against that.
Also " No Money Collections", maybe, strictly speaking, but they certainly "gather" as much money as they can lay their grubby hands on !
I notice in the MEME there is no mention of "unique" Doctrines, which of course it is difficult to claim they are truly unique, but their Blood Doctrine and 1914 Doctrine are pretty unusual in this day and age, they probably don't like to draw attention to those two, as both are easily refuted, and shown to be NOT " Bible based".
i do like the usa but winters suck!
florida has some charm but it gets brutal with heat and humidity.
california is too looney.
Thank you Fulano for that info. I was going to investigate my Tax position in Portugal, I will be much happier paying taxes to such a Government as theirs.
Bluesbrother, have you proof that I need to alter my view of the P.M and the Government, please ?
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The Doctrine of the Trinity was very late in developing, it is certainly not found in any form in the N.T that does not require a huge stretch. Its development/evolution was probably spurred on by a desire to accommodate Greek Philosophical thinking.
It was never a huge part of the early thinking of the various Jesus sects as far as I can see, not even the Gnostics.
Ideas of an incipient doctrine of the meaning of the Divinity of Jesus , as the two being "one" can maybe seen in very late works like The Gospel of John,( early 1st Century, maybe later) but again, it is a stretch to read in to the words that the Holy Spirit is Yahweh.
Were it a great truth, surely it would be unequivocally expressed in the N.T, and made a great part of the idea of how to gain " salvation" ?
I am no great enemy of the Doctrine from a philosophical point of view, and the Doctrine is nothing like the simplistic J,W explanation and " refutation" of it. As with many things, the J.W Org speaks of things of which it knows not.
a deeply interesting read.. i have been reading: 'soul snatchers,the mechanics of cults' and i am finding it so precise in explaining /analysing cults.
here is a few lines:.
drug addiction and cult-membership have striking similarities.
I think this book makes an interesting link in the similarity between drug dependence and dependence upon a Cult, like the J.W's
A young guy I "studied" with, at the request of his father, as the young feller had just returned home having nearly killed himself with drugs, explained that the drugs alone were not what had a hold on him, it was the "culture", the "society", people he had thought of as friends, also "respect", as he was a Dealer.
The Cult communities, like the J.W's, Mormons, SDA's etc provide similar. "Friends", a different Culture, and often a boost to one's self worth.
As with the drug scene, these things have a hold beyond the drug itself, these being the teachings of the Cult, the hope of Everlasting life etc.
The young guy substituted the J.W's for the drug scene, but he still spiraled down mentally,too much damage done. He is now a psychotic wreck.
