I was born in to the Cult in the early 1950's, nearly all the adults were converts to the Cult. This slowly diminished over the decades, now it is as rare as Rocking Horse poo for someone to become a convert, and even then, most of those do not come from " cold calling" type work, but via relatives or work colleagues etc.
Posts by Phizzy
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13Stats of bible studies vs baptisms
by joey jojo indavid splane once again 'davesplaning' facts and figures.
10 million bible studies and 200 000 baptisms.
how many of these would be jw kids with no choice?
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Jehovah's Witnesses Started By Christiandom
by mrquik ina little background first.
my first father- in-law, levi peterson was born in 1889. he personally knew rutherford.
he started the newark, ny congregation.
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Phizzy
On the matter of the uttering of the Divine Name aloud, how do JW Org justify this ? They say that the Jewish religion was the True Religion until the death of Jesus or thereabouts.
Then they say as the Gospel does , that god said " Your House is abandoned to you". From then on, faith in Christ was the thing.
But, for all those Centuries, Yahweh had obviously smiled upon the reverential practice of only the High Priest uttering The Name aloud, once a year. Others disagree, on what evidence I know not, but I would argue that no one, including Jesus, among the ordinary Jewish folk, uttered the Name aloud.
So, why do Jehovah's Witnesses ? also obviously causing others to as they utter the name of the org, a practice that Jehovah did not approve in direct word, ever it seems.
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JWs Were Right About Something
by minimus inthey used to say the world governments would turn on religion.
i think this part is coming true.
however they also said since jehovah’s witnesses were going to be the only religion left the governments were going to focus on the “eyeball”of jehovah, his people.
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Phizzy
I don't think Governments are "turning on religion" at all, in any major way, yes a Hindu Government in India is making life Hell for its Muslim subjects, but that is not a general " turning on religion" as outlined by JW's.
What is happening is that people are demanding Human Rights, and more often than not some aspects of religions are denying people those rights.
Religious affiliation is falling fast in many Nations, even the benighted USA ! There is no need for Governments to deal harshly with religion in a general way, as it is moribund anyway.
So, as with Bible predictions of all sorts, or Bible based ones, the JW prediction in this case, has not, and IMHO will not, come true in the terms in which it is written.
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Moses got it wrong- The Ark was round
by fulltimestudent innot a new subject, i think i have posted on this before, as well as others.
but, i came across a british museum video (on youtube) in which a bm curator tells of his discovery of a cuneiform tablet outlining the assyrian story of the flood and the (round) ark.. the bm curator was dr irving finkel, deputy keeper of middle east at the british museum, he explains that one day a member of the public brought in an old family heirloom.
it all started with a fairly normal event for a museum: a member of the public bringing in an old family heirloom - a cuneiform tablet from around 1750 bc which proved to be one in a million.. finkel proceeded to decipher this tablet.
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Phizzy
" Moses got it wrong " . It is not all " Moses" got wrong in Genesis, the order of "Creation" being one example.
I can imagine the Writer or Writers posing as Moses thinking it was a good idea to change the dimensions of the Ark as they created their own Story, but I am sure they were very familiar with exactly what the Babylonian story said, as that is what they had grown up with !
The whole putting together of a false History for the Hebrews is an interesting area of Study, a Study in the creation of a National Identity, and though we can now see the many fictions in the claims it makes, it is quite cleverly done. Clever enough to fool subsequent generations down until this day that it is a true record. Clever enough to cause Israel to claim it has historical rights which it does not.
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The Marcionite Hypothesis
by HowTheBibleWasCreated ini'm still working on the hebrew bible for my book but looking ahead most of my research had fallen into place as i take month off from research., when it come to the nt most people accept what is commonly called markian priority.
this common theory says that mark was written in 70 ad and then a saying gospel of jesus called q was combined with this to make matthew and luke sometimes around 100 ad.
john as later.
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Phizzy
Josephus refers to various people called Jesus, and in some Manuscripts says of one of them " also called Christus", both Jesus and Christus being common names. And people being known by more than one name being a common thing too.
If Josephus wanted to speak about the Jesus of Christians he would have said " Jesus of Nazareth" to identify him.
The fact that Christians had to put a fake reference in to Josephus at some point says it all. It was exposed as fake when an earlier MS. was found, and it was not in there.
No MS. of Josephus exists earlier than about 1000 A.D.
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EXCELLENT F.B Post re: latest Borg Mind Control etc
by Phizzy infrom william.
h. bowen on facebook :.
alienation and garbage the new message of jehovah’s witnesses.
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Phizzy
From William. H. Bowen on Facebook :
Alienation and Garbage the New Message of Jehovah’s WitnessesJWorg does a broadcast each month to all members and the public at large. In these public addresses they cover topics of concern to leadership and use the information to keep members in line. Jehovah’s Witnesses over the years have followed basic mind control techniques that while simplistic, have worked well in keeping members in line and ostracizing former members. In recent years a noted change has occurred in which the mind control programming has become far more sophisticated with the use of social media. The organization has apparently spent serious money to utilize psychological coercion to such a profound extent that even babies will be subject to mental manipulation through the use of cartoons and other social media. Why?JWorg is simply trying to increase their recidivism; they want members to not leave and have deep inner core programming installed that prevents them from using critical thinking skills thus never leaving the organization. JWs have so much material to review and cover on a weekly basis they have no time to look at anything outside the religion. If confronted with material that would be considered subversive, they immediately go onto shut down mode as they feel they have not kept up to date with their own material and of course have no time for anything that would challenge their faith. In the past, few members actually read the flagship journals; Watchtower and Awake other than what was covered in the weekly Watchtower Study. New books were so convoluted and boring they were mostly covered in the weekly book study arrangement as well. So what we see is much more sophisticated to keep members following JWorg programming. Video is much more powerful than the written word as it includes visual as well as hearing the material. Now every Kingdom Hall has a huge monitor that is used every week to disseminate church dogma. Members all have tablets, that broadcast material non-stop anytime of the day and they are encouraged to review frequently. As a result JWs have a non-stop pipeline of mind manipulation that makes them much more hard core to obey and follow without question anything they are told to do.The result? A mindless cacophony of people that cannot think for themselves that are susceptible to any manipulation the home office chooses to dole out. February broadcast of JWorg offers an extreme example of how completely horrific these manipulations can be. In one particular part of the hour+ long broadcast a “given one” (this is a special assistant to the Governing Body) offers a visual illustration involving loaves of bread. The representation has a message and that missive was; it is too late for those that have rejected the Governing Body to return to JWorg.Based on this new “Garlic Bread” parable in this airing there was an illustration using three loaves of bread. The point made is that the doors of the ark have been closed shut by Jehovah's hand for most of us.According to the new parable that can be found on JW Broadcasting. All people/witnesses fall into three categories of garlic bread contamination.Ingredients:Garlic powder= Adams sin/your sins/ grieving the spirit etc...Toxic oil= UnforgivableMud = Gross sinUsing three loaves each one was described as follows:Loaf 1:*This describes the person who sins against the spirit and commits unforgivable sins and become stained with toxic oil. You are beyond repair therefore Jehovah WILL throw you into the trash can now to save you for final destruction at Armageddon.· What is considered unforgivable sin? Someone who sins against the ‘Holy Spirit’; See W07 7/15 p.20 under the heading “Have You Sinned Against the Holy Spirit?” it states: “an apostate who has rejected spiritual light..”· So if you reject the GB as God’s only true word on earth you are considered trash to be discarded and not worth saving.Loaf 2:This is the person who commits serious or gross sin and breaks one of Jehovah's moral laws. This is comparable to mud therefore the side of the bread is dipped into mud.............But there's good news if you repent Jehovah will cut the dirty sin part off of your loaf and you will be left with a clean loaf albeit a bit smaller than the original size. So don't sin too much or you'll be left with only crumbs after Jehovah finish trimming you. So you again are doomed only if you go back to JWorg and obey everything they tell you to do.Loaf 3:Grieving the spirit and being led away from Jehovah. If this describes you, then you have accumulated extra garlic powder on your loaf...but don't worry Jehovah can shake the excess off!What is one way we grieve the ‘Holy Spirit” by their definition? W04 3/13/p.29-30 - Questions From Readers• How can we grieve God’s holy spirit, since it is not a person?““We would also be grieving the spirit if we deliberately undermined respect for spirit-appointed men in the congregation.—Acts 20:28; Jude 8.”So simply “undermining” the elders would put you in danger of being discarded.Think of the full implications of this broadcast. If you are a child that has a parent that is a nonmember, how are you required to view them? According to the JWorg material, as trash not worth listening to or saving, and doomed to be destroyed by Jehovah at any minute. This mental coercion will drastically alienate children from nonmember parents and family as it creates an adversarial environment that destroys any normal family interactions. The same implication applies to all family members or anyone for that matter that is not an active book-selling member of JWorg. If you, in anyway, oppose the teachings or more especially the leadership, of the Governing Body as God’s only ‘channel’ on earth, then you are placed in the “oil on bread” category and viewed as garbage not worth even the effort of saving and needing to be thrown way and never interacted with again.So while JW leadership claims to “abhor” child abuse and have “love” for their neighbor, they insidiously use broadcast like this to create a wedge of hate and alienation in families. This has nothing to do with God or the preaching of the good news of the kingdom, but instead, it is pure and simple evil manipulation of innocent minds to destroy normal familial relations. They know exactly what they are doing as this creates a cash cow of mindless slaves that break their piggy banks and backs working for JWorg their entire lives and when they die sign all their assets over to them as well.Material like this is actually a “king with no clothes” moment for those of us that understand what is really going on. It is vile and disgusting, yet all done in the name of God; tax-exempt. Perhaps the saddest part is that a few pennies of each dollar donated goes to defend JW pedophiles, as JW lawyers/elders fight the courts to endeavor to see that victims’ hurt by their evil policies are not compensated for the damages they have wrought.Would any deity “bless” an organization like this? I can think of only one….For helpful information on abuse see silentlambs.org for assistance with family alienation see jwchildcustody.com -
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Suing The Music Industry
by Lost in the fog injehovah’s witnesses file copyright lawsuit in response to blundering christmas album - listen, obey, and be blessed.
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https://www.toptutorials.co.uk/jehovahs-witnesses-file-copyright-lawsuit-in-response-to-blundering-christmas-album-torrentfreak/.
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Phizzy
I think this move by JW Org may well be another case of shooting themselves in the foot. Most of the general public know next to nothing about J.W's and their wacky beliefs, a few know about Blood Transfusions, some do know more detail, but the majority I think probably are not aware that they do not celebrate Christmas and Birthdays.
My son was taking the piss out of his girlfriend a while ago, saying " You are the kind of sucker that would fall for the J.W nonsense", she has a fascination about weirdo Cults, she then asked him more about the beliefs, and with a laugh replied, " Well they won't catch me then, I love Christmas and Birthdays too much!"
I wonder how many more of the public share her views ? she is not religious in any way, never has been, but Chrissy and birthdays are important to her and to her family.
I agree with the above that the Aled Jones version of the Song is a lot better than the original !
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Who was it who ''rescued'', or ''saved'' you?
by Beth Sarim infrom the borg?.
i point to none other than cal lehman and the towerwatch ministries.
towewatch.com.. the years following the collapse of the ussr and the 1995 generation left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
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Phizzy
Well spotted Moran ! "new light" and "old light" is total rubbish.
I bet those pompous Elders would be aghast to read what Charles Taze Russell said about it ! he said that there is NO SUCH THING as Old Light, he said that if a new understanding of Scripture totally wipes out a teaching, then it NEVER WAS light !
But of course, now you could be DF'd for teaching the "old light", and probably for teaching what later becomes " New light". Preposterous !
I strode a similar path to you, Min. Serv. giving public Talks, in other Congregations too, popular because those Talks were interesting, due to research, in my case, research quite often out side the W.T library, naughty boy wasn't I ? and eventually I decided the Governing Body and the Writing Committee did not have a CLUE about the Bible !!
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The Marcionite Hypothesis
by HowTheBibleWasCreated ini'm still working on the hebrew bible for my book but looking ahead most of my research had fallen into place as i take month off from research., when it come to the nt most people accept what is commonly called markian priority.
this common theory says that mark was written in 70 ad and then a saying gospel of jesus called q was combined with this to make matthew and luke sometimes around 100 ad.
john as later.
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Phizzy
I await your Book with great interest HTBWC !
I also like very much the Hypothesis you outline in your O.P, I would so very much like for it to be affirmed and to be accepted, at least by Scholars, J.W's and other Fundies will proceed regardless, they don't go much for Scholarship, Facts or Evidence.
It is though, as you outline it above, hardly a credible Hypothesis that other Scholars will agree with, but maybe you will go in to greater depth on this more in your Book ? make a stronger case ? As I said, I do desire it to be spot on, but also desire its acceptance by those who matter in the field of N.T Studies.
It is amazing how things have moved on in the last few decades, the consensus among N.T Scholars is as you say in your O.P, I think many of them err on the side of caution, out of fear of what other Big Guns in the world of N.T Studies may say, but at least things have moved on from the early 20th Century, where a quite silly view of the time of writing for the Synoptics etc was the consensus.
Maybe you will give the old boys, ( and girls) of N.T Studies, a nudge further in the right direction, with your Book !
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Misheard song lyrics
by jhine ini thought that as there seems to have been some very serious sh-stuff being discussed lately maybe a light hearted thread might be in order .
i was thinking about misheard song lyrics ( climb every woman ) and it seemed a good topic for a thread .to start off for many years l thought that fat boy slim was singing about some very posh shoes with funk soul rubber on the bottom .
has anyone else realised that they have been singing the wrong words ?
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Phizzy
"it's a Goose egg" too in one place.