Posts by Phizzy

60

The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

by aqwsed12345 in

1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

Phizzy

The Historically Reality is that there was no single "Christianity" in the 1st Century C.E, there were a good number of competing "Christian " groups. The Epistles of John and other N.T verses make this very plain.

So there was nothing to be an Apostate from that we can view as pure or original. The Christian group that prevailed over others they considered were heretics, was the group who styled themselves as "Orthodox" , meaning "Right way".

They proceeded to corrupt Scripture, as Bart Ehrman has ably shown in his Book, and to dictate what was correct Doctrine in their view.

So this is the only late 1st Century and 2nd Century group it was possible to be an Apostate from !

And there was no continuity in the holding of doctrines and interpretations etc. in this group ! It all constantly changed.

The idea of the "Great Apostasy" is a Myth.

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

Yup, myself and many like me used to go toe to toe on Doctrine with people. I have done so with all sorts, including Vicars and Pastors etc.

I once had a chat with a Church of England Bishop, and ended up selling him the mags, we charged in those days , he asked "How much will you charge me for these ?", I replied "I will let you have them at Trade Price". LOL.

135

Rumour 144,000 literal number teaching to be abandoned at Annual Meeting

by slimboyfat in

say it ain’t so!

.

in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?

Phizzy

That, slim, is the very weak J.W argument.

I wonder if this rumour has some foundation ? many J.W's struggled to swallow the literal number idea.

One such, an eighty year old former Elder, who "stepped down" for family reasons years ago, told me, a few weeks back, he doubted it could be literal, but he added he feels ,still, that J.W's have got "most things right". Sad, in all other areas of life he uses Critical Thinking Skills , and Fact Checking properly, but gives his religion almost a total Free Pass.

How many more J.W's are there that feel this way about the 144,000 number ?

13

Witnesses after Covid shut down are increasing their calls around my neighborhood

by wozza in

jw
friends

hi all , i just had another call by a an elderly jw ,let's call him ian.. only about 3 months ago i had a young jw call and trying to talk to him i had to tone it down a bit because he did'nt seem so theocratically bright as he only offered a tract and not much else , and i've had others call since covid.. so it seems around here they are making regular calls but not like back in the day when i used to auxillary pioneer where we would go over this turf every 1 to 3 weeks in the 80's.. but back to my caller ian ,on his own , but out with a group of jw's he was quick to get around the pleasantries and and so i interrupted him tactfully to slow him down.

started with a bit of my history easing into the fact that i had my first contact with jw's with my soon to be mother-in -law who was an invalided jw ,we had many good talks about her beliefs in the early 70's.. at this point he jumps in and wants to know if i would want a study again because i told him that i once did a study with jw's back.

i carefully steered him into telling me about those days ,what was he was doing back then.

Phizzy

About ten years ago, they would be in my area, a rural one, every three months, and I would see some J.W;s going to nearby Homes on "Return Visits".

I cannot recall when I last saw them on the knock-knocks here, or even a lone J.W doing a R.V. It was pre-Covid for sure.

Back in the day when I was in, part of the C.O's job was making sure they got around their "Territory" at least every three months. Since the advent of Cart work, Covid, and no Hour requirement, I guess what few Cold Calls they do are nearby easy ones, and we in the Countryside get left in peace !

They are fast becoming an even more insignificant little Cult than they ever were, once upon a time every body knew of J.W's, and they seemed to be more numerous than they really were, with regular door knocking, and old-style Street Work where they really engaged people in discussion.

Now a half-hearted membership has the task of trying to make converts from a Public who are hardly aware of who they are, but are immediately conscious they are being accosted by some weirdo religious Nutjob.

The "Preaching Work" was never really at all efficient at making converts, and many long serving J.W's went through their whole life never making a Convert, and feeling THEN that the "work" was mainly a waste of time, and so not in any way satisfying.

Now it must dawn on them the Org. is only trying to keep them busy, wasting time doing nothing of value, of even less value than the Convict breaking rocks as part of his sentence.

The demise of the Org. cannot now be many years away, GOOD !

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

When I first left, almost two decades ago, I used to hope I would live to see the complete demise of the Evil J.W Org. I then went through a period where I was sure they would limp on for many a decade, and their final demise would happen long after I was gone.

That may well be the case, especially as I am now in my mid-70's. but a downward spiral like the one they are now in is the sort of thing that speeds up, so who knows ? The Org. has long been making it plain that they have a Cash Flow problem , yes, they are still Asset Rich, but they have sold off so much there is a point where what little they get in by further sales is insufficient to give sufficient Cash Flow.

Many a Corporation has jogged along for a while like that, and then Bang, they have to go Bust.

The first thing I did as I began to wake up, over two years before I finally walked away, was to stop my Monthly Donation. I wonder how many have now done that ? or have not increased what they donate for a long time ?

With the lack of enthusiasm and belief in the younger ones, can you see them continuing to put their hands in their pockets and donate anything significant ?

With half-hearted members being now the majority, being joined by former Enthusiasts who wake up a bit at least, from being merely Moribund, the Org. is now Terminally ill, and the Prognosis does not give it so very long !

GOOD !

7

Who is the Audience

by peacefulpete in

stumbled upon another small observation today and for some reason i've been in a sharing mood.

lol.

compare the synoptic variations of this pericope.

Phizzy

" none of them were "independent witnesses". And none were eyewitnesses, of course, as the events and persons, including the "Jesus" Figure, are all Fictional in the Gospel of Mark, a Work of Fiction. A Work that is just a Fictional as the one about Apollonius of Tyana.

Thanks for posting PP, it is interesting to see the process at work of adding to the the first Story, and deliberately changing it.

This is a process that started as soon as Genesis was written, and carries on all the way through to "Revelation".

A constant process of Editing, Redacting , inserting many Interpolations etc.

11

New Zealand: Supreme Court dismisses Jehovah's Witnesses' final appeal for Abuse in Care exemption

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/528110/supreme-court-dismisses-jehovah-s-witnesses-final-appeal-for-abuse-in-care-exemption.

1:10 pm on 16 september 2024 .

anusha bradley, investigative reporter.

Phizzy

" They don't know what conclusion it reached"

The wilful Ignorance of the Many is a source of great sadness to me, especially that of the J.W's, who have allowed their Minds to be Controlled so that they are afraid to find out the Truth of matters.

But for the few J.W's who DO just make a few clicks with their Mouse to find out about the terrible J.W Org CSA Scandal, it is a HUGE Wake Up Call !

Thank you Barbara, for all your work over so many years, and for continuing to keep us informed.

33

Sorcery = Pharmakeia

by KerryKing in

rev18:23 '....you deceived the nations with your sorceries'.. the interlinear for sorceries reads pharmakeia.. bible hub has some interesting definitions, i'll try to share screenshots below.

the gist of it is that sorcery involves drugs/medicines/poisons, with or without spells, sorcery is not the same as witchcraft or divination, or white/black magic.

i have long wondered about the connection between the medical/pharmaceutical industry's symbol of the serpent wrapped around a pole/stake, and the use of the word pharmaceuticals/pharmacy.. considering the common use of fluoride in public drinking water, nsaids with side effects such as depression, brain fog, dizziness, and opioids, mrna gene therapy, vaccines and so on, i wonder am i going mad, are these all coincidences??

Phizzy

The linguistic link between matters "spiritual" i.e "pharmakeia"" and Sorcery as P.P. points out is no surprise, but what the G.B & Co ignore, or perhaps do not know, is that the Israelites and later the Jews, right down until Roman Occupation times at least, and maybe until 70 C.E ??? burned Cannabis on the Altar at Temples dedicated to the worship of YHWH/Jehovah.

This was done so that the worshippers would have a spiritual experience which they would feel came from the presence of Yahweh.

So can we expect this sometime soon in a G.B, letter ? :

" After careful study, and prayerful consideration of the matter, in the light of Jehovah's evident approval of this practice, the Holy Spirit has guided us to decide that the smoking of cannabis is permitted by you dear brothers, as long as this is done at a time of Worship".

62

TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS "Handling Cases of Drug Abuse" September 1, 2018

by Not_Culty in

https://jwglossary.blogspot.com/2018/09/to-all-bodies-of-elders-handling-cases.html.

to all bodies of elders "handling cases of drug abuse".

september 1, 2018. to all bodies of elders re: handling cases of drug abusedear brothers: as noted below, the procedure for handling the misuse of marijuana and the abuse of medi- cal, illicit, or addictive drugs has been adjusted to harmonize with the procedure for handling the misuse of tobacco.

Phizzy

I bet the GB & Co. probably don't know, or are ignoring, that the Israelites, and later the Jews burned Cannabis on the Altar of the Temple so as to get the worshippers to feel an experience they would ascribe as coming from Jehovah.

What you will never see or hear from the G.B. &Co :

"So on the basis of this clear Scriptural principle brothers, we have decided not to proscribe the smoking of Cannabis in the Kingdom Hall during times of Worship".

21

2nd Isaiah 49:6

by peacefulpete in

6 and he said, it is too small a thing that thou shouldest be servant to me to raise up the sons of jacob, and to bring back the netzurei yisroel (preserved of israel,); i will also give thee for ohr goyim, that thou mayest be my yeshuah unto the ketzeh ha’aretz.. 2nd isaiah, actually an anonymous prophet at the time of cyrus, did his best to inspire and hearten his fellow countrymen.

many judahites had lost hope and even lost faith.

the explanations offered by previous prophets, namely that their own sins had resulted in their situation, were not adequate nor convincing.

Phizzy

Thanks for bringing back to the top some of your very erudite and educational Threads P.P.

I am enjoying reading them again, and for people they are new to, they must be a Revelation !