Yes, the writer of Matt used the passage. He quote mined the OT to add 'fleshing out' details to Mark. Even then he does not however suggest the passage is referring to a prehuman eternal origin. He says the King/Ruler would go forth from the ancient clan of Ephrathah of Bethlehem of 'days of old'.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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152
Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?
by slimboyfat ini would suggest:.
the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.
the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.
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152
Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?
by slimboyfat ini would suggest:.
the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.
the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.
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peacefulpete
This is misdirection in the extreme. The operative word in Micah 5:2 is "origin." Jesus is indeed ancient, though the definition of olam as "eternity" is flawed. His age is indeed beyond human comprehension, but the reference is still to an origin, a point in time, a time when he went forth....
Actually you are equally disregarding the intent of the author. As I briefly said the context says simply that the promised King would be from an ancient clan of Ephrathah, the origins of which were "from of old, from ancient times". There is nothing about a prehuman spirit implied.
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152
Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?
by slimboyfat ini would suggest:.
the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.
the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.
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peacefulpete
Mythicism is rejected by scholars as being almost on a par with flat-earth theories.
LOL, ironically the 'historicist' position could be regarded the 'flat earth theory' in light of the fresh scholarship on Christian origins. The 'Mythicist' label is deliberately used pejoratively by some who have not even familiarized themselves with the best arguments. Much like you did.
In short, the ingredients were all there, the political timing was right and the earliest writings we have reveal an otherwise bizarre absence of historical markers. I'd not expect you to change your views on a couple posts, give serious consideration to an introduction to the evidence in :On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt: Carrier, Richard: 0884967420701: Amazon.com: Books
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U turn in vac mandate
by ElderBerry inso now they don’t want defib machines in khalls because it shines a light on the increasing blood clots from the shots that they said were safe.
https://youtu.be/yvvyiuqv3nm.
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peacefulpete
Surely the rise of AI and the availability of AEDs are not a coincidence! These so-called life-saving devices are in fact secret death instruments.
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Why did God stop intervening in human affairs and deliverance of his people?
by RULES & REGULATIONS inthe bible is full of stories of god intervening on behalf of those that had trust and faith in him.
he rescues his people from various battles, trials and challenges from their enemies.
the rescued individuals or communities are quick to offer praise and gratitude to god for his mighty acts on their behalf.. the story of the israelites’ exodus from egypt and the parting of the red sea is a prime example of god’s powerful deliverance in the bible.
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peacefulpete
Sometimes we forget that when the first readers of these stories read them, they asked the same question. -
152
Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?
by slimboyfat ini would suggest:.
the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.
the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.
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peacefulpete
Days ago, slimboy screenshot an excerpt from a book discussing the evolution of the messiah concept. That book and many others have demonstrated, very convincingly, that among the diverse sects of Hellenized Judaism a matrix of pre-Christian concepts gelled into Christianity. The 'Two Powers' theology, "The Great Angel", Holy Spirit, Wisdom, Shekhinah, Light, Logos and Son of God, Son of Man, concepts all occur or were understood as embodied emanations of God during second temple Judaism. Substitutes for God as it were. When the first Christians 'perceived' from these texts and 'visions' an invisible drama of the Christ descending from the highest regions of heaven and being hung on a tree by wicked spirits, their seemingly foreign ideas were actually a natural extension of a sophisticated Jewish ideation of God and Messianism. Given the diversity of Judaism and Hellenism that inspired Christianity, it would seem unrealistic to insist upon a singular picture of 'original' Christianity. In this model of Christian origins, we begin with broad strokes of belief in divine salvation through an invisible emissary of God.
As I've expressed before, it appears certain second/third generation Christians adapted Old testament narratives to dramatize the invisible. They freely drew from the OT, hundreds of story and prophetic elements to 'flesh out' what was understood as spirit. I suspect that the original form of Mark was a didactic play for recruitment or instruction. Christ was given a name, Emmanuel and Joshuah, his father was Joseph, the towns he lived in were Bethlehem and Nazareth, he walked the exact routes of OT figures, he sat at the same well, he performed the OT miracles, all drawn from the OT and related writings. The popularity of this dramatization unfortunately led to literalization. Christianity was transformed via euhemerism. What was once an esoteric faith in the divine formed through visionary interpretation was overlain with a cult of a literary person killed by Romans. The Church Fathers and others created a hybrid of the two. They were intellectually attracted to the higher Christology of the original but leaned on the literalizations as a defense. The same continues today.
Is it any wonder debates about the nature of this Christ have continued for 2000 years? The modern selection of texts used for these debates were chosen by Church Fathers and later leaders to permit both a fully divine Christ and a fully human Joshua.
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152
Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?
by slimboyfat ini would suggest:.
the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.
the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.
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peacefulpete
1 Sam 17:12 Now David [was] the son of that Ephrathite of Bethlehem judah, whose name [was] Jesse...
Micah 5 was repeating a belief that someone of the small 'clan of Bethlehem Ephrathah' would rule Israel. When that was written that clan's origins were already from the mythic past, "whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
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Voting, why make it easier to vote??
by moomanchu indemocrats are always harping on and on about voting rights and how the ability to vote should be easier and access unrestricted.
the most progressive ones want to allow prisoners, and illegals with no voter id the ability to vote along with the criminals, drug addicts, and uneducated low lives who already can vote.. .
after they push for everyone and anyone to be able to vote they then tell us it is a sacred privilege, a duty and honor, and a big responsibility blah, blah ect..... if it is all those grandiose things are true i think it should be harder to vote not easier.
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peacefulpete
I
I admit, I'm a little afraid. This is just not normal. -
24
Voting, why make it easier to vote??
by moomanchu indemocrats are always harping on and on about voting rights and how the ability to vote should be easier and access unrestricted.
the most progressive ones want to allow prisoners, and illegals with no voter id the ability to vote along with the criminals, drug addicts, and uneducated low lives who already can vote.. .
after they push for everyone and anyone to be able to vote they then tell us it is a sacred privilege, a duty and honor, and a big responsibility blah, blah ect..... if it is all those grandiose things are true i think it should be harder to vote not easier.
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peacefulpete
Yep. I understand that.
Can people with felony convictions vote? (usafacts.org)
It's an interesting question. Does a felon lose their right of franchise because they are no longer fully citizens? Some might argue keeping a convicted felon engaged with larger society could be helpful. A large factor in recidivism is the sense of alienation from the community many felons feel.
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Mandated Shunning is a Crime
by Lee Marsh inmandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.
shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.
mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.
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peacefulpete
'Disfellowshipped' was too self defining, it meant what it said and what it said was emotional abuse....'Removed' simply implies, taken off the church rolls. It's a strategic effort to get governments, concerned about abuse and familial alienation, off their back.
I admit, I'm a little afraid. This is just not normal.