Posts by peacefulpete

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

peacefulpete

Anony mous....I think you are correct. What was called Arianism was essentially a logos theology. An attempt to bridge the Logos of Philo et al with a historized understanding of the Jesus of the Gospels. I also liked your comment regarding the psychological underpinnings of the Trinity. It makes sense to understand your a singular deity as all things, Wise and Fatherly, Vital and powerful, and pervasive and omnipresent. Giving faces to those aspects is how humans understand things. We make models and symbols to conceptualize intangibles.

JWs unknowingly have done the same, they just dumbed it down. Either, or should I say any, conceptualization of deities will suffer from scrutiny and rational analysis, because they are the product of poets and diviners, not scientists.

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

peacefulpete

Funny how the pagans came up with the trinity beliefs first well before the Christians. So it's not a new belief the Christian just copied their pagan cousins.

Touchofgrey....can't the same be said for everything? God having sons, some of whom were thought to have walked on earth, for example.

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

peacefulpete

It was like attendees at a Star Wars convention voting which episode was the best. Oh, and agreeing that Star Wars is way better than Star Trek and Dr. Who.

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

peacefulpete

The council itself involved a narrow selection of attendees with views within the burgeoning Catholic church. These views did not include various adoptionist, docetic Christologies or most relevantly, Logos theology.

"Logos-theology which taught a two-stage existence for the Logos: He always existed inside God but became a separate Being - a distinct Reality - when God decided to create." wiki

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

peacefulpete

This exercise has at least demonstrated the futility of debating doctrine with a church that has had 1800 years of eisegesis practice. JWs are amateurs by comparison.

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

peacefulpete

deleted by me, because what's the point.

10

What Is The Purpose Of YORWW Having A Creed & The Forty (40) Basic, Fundamental Truth Requirement?

by Littleleslie in

what is the purpose of yorww having a creed & the forty (40) basic, fundamental truth requirement?.

many people have wondered about the above question and our stand on the forty (40) basic, fundamental truths, and why we make it a requirement for individual jehovah's witnesses to believe these ideas before...before they can join our five (5) discussion boards.well, its called the yorww congregation, isn't it?its a congregation of like believers and persons of like faith.

(matthew 18:20) so they are supposed to agree on their beliefs, exactly as first century christians agreed upon their beliefs.

peacefulpete

Again just a $40 book to save yourself, what a deal.

10

What Is The Purpose Of YORWW Having A Creed & The Forty (40) Basic, Fundamental Truth Requirement?

by Littleleslie in

what is the purpose of yorww having a creed & the forty (40) basic, fundamental truth requirement?.

many people have wondered about the above question and our stand on the forty (40) basic, fundamental truths, and why we make it a requirement for individual jehovah's witnesses to believe these ideas before...before they can join our five (5) discussion boards.well, its called the yorww congregation, isn't it?its a congregation of like believers and persons of like faith.

(matthew 18:20) so they are supposed to agree on their beliefs, exactly as first century christians agreed upon their beliefs.

peacefulpete

From what I can gather, the poster regards themselves as God's prophet sent to gather Jehovah's Witnesses (the true religion) into an online 'wilderness' to receive 'Divine Instruction' until the WT is disciplined sufficiently for being an NGO. I see they have suffered from a messiah complex for many years. I don't think we are doing them any favors enabling them.

As members of the YORWW Congregation, we believe and teach Jehovah's Witnesses are God's Name People, established as such in 1931,....Therefore, in harmony with the powerful judgment messages of the prophets of old, yes, our prophetic message today as shown above, is called THE "REPORT",....
So a "voice" that speaks from the "wilderness" point of view, then has to be viewed as coming from a source OUTSIDE of the camp of Israel -- the voice of a prophet of God. Therefore, if God were to raise up a "prophet" then in our day, during times of National Apostasy to warn the people, he would no doubt raise him up from the "wilderness" point of view, thus being seen by the majority of people as being OUTSIDE the camp of Israel or apostate nation. Also, as we might rightly expect, this "voice from the wilderness" would urge "repentance" like John the Baptist did during his day. And yet, we would rightly expect this "prophet" to be seen or perceived by the nation as a whole as a distant "voice", far away from the nation itself. This "voice" would no doubt be generally considered by the religious leaders of that time and general populous, to be an OUTSIDER to the nation of Israel, thereby speaking from a non-acceptable source or point of origin...namely, the "wilderness." Think about it.THE YORWW ARRANGEMENT AS GOD'S SPECIAL "SANCTUARY" OR "TABERNACLE" FOR ALL MANKIND!

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

peacefulpete

Acts 16:6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. 7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.

Phil 1:19 for I know that through your prayers and God’s provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.

Here are 2 examples of the primary emanations of God used interchangeably. Holy Spirit is perceived essentially the same as the Christ in certain roles. Similarly, Jesus would 'always be with them' and he would 'send another, the Holy Spirit'.

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

How the New Testament Canon Was Formed (Interview with Dr. Bart Ehrman) | Watch