The entire account is allegorical.Nakedness representative of innocence.Snakes don't talk.Even primitive Jews knew this.Fruit equates with temptation.All of the details:sleep rib, fruit ,snake,tree,7 days,4 rivers,subsequent hardship,are motifes employed by numerous "pagan"religious legend writers without any pretense of literalness.
It was only with late Greek influence was any attempt made to literalize the Hebrew version of the story. Elaborative exegesis was necessary to enable western thinkers to accept this obvious allegory as history.Henceforth the snake was not just a snake but a wicked spirit.Incredible importance became attatch to a once simple and poinant tale of human weakness.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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24
A Case of Entrapment?
by patio34 inwhy is it that modern justice says entrapment is unfair?
are they more just than god?
consider the case of adam and eve: there they were, more innocent than any humans who had ever lived.
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peacefulpete
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Question for Atheists
by RWC inchristians who believe in the bible and the teachings of christ use that as a moral core and code of conduct.
for those who don't believe in god, where do you get your sense of moral right and wrong?
what is your moral foundation?
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peacefulpete
Perry, what can I say?
It is ironic that you condemn science of promoting fairy tales when that is exactly their perception of you. So if I understand you right you would like to see neither position discussed in school.Or just your position?Ask yourself honestly are you concerned about the integrity of science or the souls of the students.The first could be viewed as noble,the second as an attempt to proselytize in public schools.If you would honestly like to see no theoretical science in the schools,why instead of mearly expressing this have you instead sought to (in all "fairness")bring into the classroom another unproven theory?Yes you are trying to bring religion into school.Be honest.
Was I right about Johnson? Has his writing influenced your thinking? His favorite phrase also is "it's not fair".My thinking has been conveyed.I am not an Atheist I am a Nondeist.This means I do not assert there can be no God, rather that there is no objective evidence that there is one.I'm OK with not knowing everything.The pressure to have all the answers rushes many to make a leap of faith,(Atheist and Theist)rather than calmly reserving judgement.While science uses it's best understanding to offer plausable explanations, sometimes the only answer is patience.It would be wrong to replace an admission that a question is at present beyond our complete understanding with an assertion that the answer MUST then be supernatural.The first position is humble and condusive to reaserch and progress.The second is religious,arrogant and antithetic to the growth of knowledge.
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The courtyard and the holy city in Rev 11
by Smitty inis the courtyard the same as the holy city in rev 11?.
quote:(niv)rev 11:2 - "but exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the gentiles.
they will trample on the holy city for 42 months.
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peacefulpete
I was appalled to learn that the 12 foundation stones described as gem stones in chapt 21 are in fact the exact 12 birthstone symbols based on the lesser zodiac.All twelve in exactly the correct order.This Gnostic writer of Revelation was no doubt influenced by Christianity.
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Atheist Myths
by cellomould inexcerpts from http://www.hdiweb.com/atheism/html/atheist_myths.html .
as i have said many times before, the purpose of this column is not to promote the us vs. them mentality against the theists, rather to promote understanding and tolerance.
however, we all know that many theists are so closed-minded about us that they wont even talk to us, let alone try to understand us.
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peacefulpete
At first I also was depressed because I felt I had lost so much.Then I realized I had not really lost anything,as my hopes were illusory.Religion while having performed a social cohesive role also created climate of apathy.What I mean is that all nobel actions were motivated by invoking GODS will.Even tho there was much talk of human love it was always contexted with reward or punishment,or at least the premise that we ought to to good because we are all Gods children.Secondly inaction was justified because God will fix everything in his good time.Now if God is removed from the picture and it then appears that self sacrifice is pointless,evenfoolish.Intelligence has its downside, anxiety,accute self awareness.It doesn't appear that animals ponder their mortality as we do.Are they happier? Can dogs make music?Do they have enjoyable conversations with friends?Do they feel satisfaction over a job well done?Happiness is the by product of living fully, lovingly and wisely.Is a spring day now so unpleasant that we must have a dream of better, to be content? People with severe hardships and the above postive outlook find life good and meaningful.
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The Bible is a Deck of Cards
by IslandWoman inthere are a variety of playing cards and a variety of games to play with them.. the bible's canon was selected with as much care and selfish intent as the makers of playing cards have when choosing their particular design or theme.. the "hebrew" canon was decided by a nation comdemned by jesus.
they picked the design.. the "christian greek" canon was decided by men who had left the teachings of the christ.
they also picked the design.. the whole thing is a sad joke.
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peacefulpete
Larsguy
you are scaring me.I am sure you are familiar with more than just the coinsidences(parallels)you mentioned.To imagine persian,Hittite,egyptian,and other asian religions anticipated details such as the virgin birth,the messiahs specific miracles his transfiguration,death by impalement,hundreds even thousands of years before christ, is ridiculous.Even the manger scene with adoring maji bearing gold,frankinsence and myrrh,were cut and pasted from savior legends centuries prior.Even names are often borrwed. The name Mary occurs in various forms in a half dozen mythologies as the mother of the savior.There was even a pagan savior who's name was Jesus.No,an honest evaluation requires we accept the Judeao/Christian religion ,like all religions past and present is a collection of enduring mythologies adapted to meet contemporary needs.The neat thing is that these tales have impact on lives thousands of years hence.Good mythologies die hard. -
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Forty Days Motif
by JosephAlward inafter the flood which lasted forty days, it seems that there were an unusual number of bible events lasting exactly forty days.
there are eighteen separate events of duration greater than ten days, and 61% of the time the event lasted exactly forty days.
only seven of eighteen events did not last forty days [1], while the other eleven lasted forty days [2].
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peacefulpete
Joseph
Chronology has facinated men for millenia.The Jewish redactors of the 5th and 6th cen.BC were obsessed with it.They reworked jewish tales and popular mythologies, weaving in their system of numerology.As hard as it may seem to believe these sects of judaism did not see this as a conflict with their condemnation of withcraft. Numerology was seen as a gift from Yaweh to lead his people.It is very obvious that many of the numbers in the Bible are creations of furtile minds.People do not live 900 yrs.The ethiopians did not lose 1,000,000 men in battle aginst the Jews.Nor did history conveniently fall into blocks of 40,or 400, or 480 yr chunks.Key to understanding there method is recognizing the astrological significance of certain numbers.The Cabala reflects a refined version of this heritage of numerology.Time was depicted as divided into 12 sections of a wheel.each section had symbolic nature.The numbers 3,4,6,7,10,12.were of special significance.(10 x 4=40) Combine this with the Greek's chronology of a greek year being 4000 yrs long,and suddenly it all makes sense.The history was manipulated but even more it was created to fit a neat and orderly pattern.All this was done to bolster Jewish spirits under Greek domination.Read :Deceptions and Myths of the Bible.by Loyd Graham,He is a bit over zealous but does a thorough job of explaning the astrological connection. The Mythic Past by Thomas Thompson is very good at reviewing the history of Judaism and its influences.
Don't fear reality,fear ignorance.
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The Bible is a Deck of Cards
by IslandWoman inthere are a variety of playing cards and a variety of games to play with them.. the bible's canon was selected with as much care and selfish intent as the makers of playing cards have when choosing their particular design or theme.. the "hebrew" canon was decided by a nation comdemned by jesus.
they picked the design.. the "christian greek" canon was decided by men who had left the teachings of the christ.
they also picked the design.. the whole thing is a sad joke.
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peacefulpete
Mike
What is proof something did not occure? This is not logic or scientific.If I tell you Zeus told me last night that I was his chosen one, can you prove it did not happen?The burden of proof always rests upon the positive assertion it did happen.
Yet it is interesting that the miracle of walking on water,the floating axe head,calming a storm, were popular tales attributed to greek gods centuries before Christ.While not absolute proof it did not happen with Jesus also it does suggest a Greek influence.Knowing how religions form and evolve, reasonable people would suspect early christian writers utilized literary license to promote their savior figure.As I've said in other threads the coincidences are numerous and specific.This evidence requires honest consideration.The proof you would have to have that these events occurred in the life of Jesus would have be very weighty.More than the need to believe. -
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Atheist Myths
by cellomould inexcerpts from http://www.hdiweb.com/atheism/html/atheist_myths.html .
as i have said many times before, the purpose of this column is not to promote the us vs. them mentality against the theists, rather to promote understanding and tolerance.
however, we all know that many theists are so closed-minded about us that they wont even talk to us, let alone try to understand us.
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peacefulpete
Iv'e tired of this debate.But I wonder if less fuel would e available to creationists if we called ourselves Nondeists rather than Atheists.In other words if we limited our position to asserting we see no scientific or philosophical necssity of a god(gods) instead of insisting there IS no god(gods)our footing be more solid.It might even make Theists less defensive.Just a thought.
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The courtyard and the holy city in Rev 11
by Smitty inis the courtyard the same as the holy city in rev 11?.
quote:(niv)rev 11:2 - "but exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the gentiles.
they will trample on the holy city for 42 months.
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peacefulpete
You might enjoy learning that serious scholars have understood Revelation as the covert condemnation of Roman rulers in the first and second century.They are able to identify all the major charactors.The book also reflects the long standing obssesion with numerology that pervaded late Judaism. (3,6,7,10,12,knowing the astrological significance of which helps to reveal the message)Being christians at that time believed the "end" was imminent the chronology ends at what was for them the very near future. When later christians read it they naturally adapted it's symbolism to mean some YET future time.Christians today 2000 yrs later have not given up attempting to "decifer" the message,but of course apply it's symbols to present entities.As time continues,as long as there are those who call themselves Christian Revelation will appear to be speaking to them.
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Human Sacrifice
by IslandWoman inin my religious and cultural heritage, human sacrifice has always been abhored.
yet, that is what the christ was; a human sacrifice.. the jewish writings condemned human sacrifice, but the christians reveled in the notion that a man died in their place.. human sacrifice is the foundation of the christian faith.
they are no better than the mayans!.
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peacefulpete
As was acknowledged,religions which required blood pouring predated chritianity,Judaism as well.An honest comparison of very ancient "pagan" religious customs with those in the Bible is very enlightening.Nearly every feature of Isrealite worship was borrowed from cultures they had contact with.Animal sacrifice,priesthood,seasonal festivals,winged cherubs,even the vary design of it's 3 chambered temple, are found by archeologists to have predated the Jews.Christianity carried on this heritage of assimilating foreign religious customs.With the very well worn story of a son of a God dying for the sins of people.As I mentioned in another thread,the story of Virgin birth,miracles,death by impalement,ressurection,ascension,etc,all are from Persian,Greek,or Hittite sources.Every thing makes sense now doesn't it.