Posts by peacefulpete

73

JWN, 23 years posting Blondie

by blondie in

jw
friends

can i call you friends, i think so after 23 years posting here.

i am dismayed how jwn is being "dominated" or taken over by a few posters, peppering the comments.

in the past, the admin did not approve of this and did remove some posters from jwn.

Leaving a cult includes learning other opinions and how they have been arrived at. Learning to learn. Honestly, I pity someone attempting to start over. The internet is a wonderful repository of religious information, most of which is objectively wrong, but don't think it is our role to screen out the noise. That starts to sound like censorship. I feel our role is to assist sorting it out by encouraging critical thinking.

I'm sure many have the view that my critical research is offensive, even harmful. So far no one has asked me to leave but I can imagine it has been considered. I have valued the input of others with contrary views, it has pulled me back from the fringe a few times. lol.

Discussion boards are different than other formats like Reddit. There is supposed to be an exchange, and reasoning and that means sometimes topics get mired down. That's not a problem, it's a reflection of how scholarship works. If a topic reaches an impasse, that suggests a new approach is necessary.

The bottom line is always, civility.

ps. I'll also add that mental health must be a factor. Someone with the opinion that angels/demons exist is one thing but someone who talks to them is another.

30

Experiences After Leaving

by Freeatlast2024 in

i am writing to ask if anyone cares to share their experience and/or offer advice for people leaving.

i was raised in the religion, and both my parents died when i was very young.

i recently stopped associating because my conscience no longer allows me to preach or support the organization.

peacefulpete

When the day came to take my leave, I didn't have many people in my life to lean on. One workmate almost surprisingly became my best friend. He had not shared my experience but was interested or polite enough to let me unload. I also read about a local salon discussion group meeting to air topics in my town. I soon connected with a whole crowd of thinking and conscientious people. To my delight my wife soon joined me. Volunteering is a great idea as others have said. We did roadside cleanup, invasive plant removal projects and joined a nature club that had outings. We felt like new people. Not every person became a lasting friendship, but they were all important at the time. My wife was first to return to school and start a new career, I followed. Life is good, take action to keep it moving forward.

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

In my view both sides are dismissive of the obvious. The Logos concept was an entirely Greek concept representing the bridging of Heavenly and earthly worlds, immaterial, and realities. Philo and others merged this with OT depictions of deity to explain how his God could be both transcendent and relatable. The earliest Christians would never have denied this provenance. Many thought of the Greek sages as having shared in divine revelation, not as enemies of it. Was this Logos (or Great Angel, created creator, Son of God, image of God etc.) merely metaphor? It depends upon your definition; we are after all discussing imagery of invisible spiritual concepts. Where does metaphor start and end? Conceiving a spirit being acting as agency of The transcendent God,IMO, meant more than just metaphor but not tangibly other than that God..... a piece of God? The Holy Spirit in many ways mirrors this as yet another emanation of The God. .

This 'Mystery' was lost on most Christians of later generations. The Gospel tales were too successful, the allegory became the reality. The Trinity became a compromise, Mystery literalized.

19

The World Today

by peacefulpete in

jw
friends

i've been meaning to share some recent experiences that defy the usual tropes about the 'world gone to hell' or 'people now days".. as some of you may remember i was seriously ill for a while and had to close my business and shop.

now, as it seems i have beaten it, i put up a sign again advertising that in a limited way i'm back.. what amazes me is how many times over the past 2 years customers and even competition have written and called to express their concern and best wishes.

just last week i had a personal visit of someone who i thought of as a rival, come in and shake my hand sincerely happy to see me up and around.

peacefulpete

To all.

73

JWN, 23 years posting Blondie

by blondie in

jw
friends

can i call you friends, i think so after 23 years posting here.

i am dismayed how jwn is being "dominated" or taken over by a few posters, peppering the comments.

in the past, the admin did not approve of this and did remove some posters from jwn.

peacefulpete

Delete

39

THE PROBLEM WITH THESE 2 NEW GB MEMBERS APPOINTMENTS

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/rjr0ugtu6zu?si=d3zsz20ee33gytxi.

these new appointments are troubling, to say the least, especially considering the factors surrounding their selection.

these appointments raise key concerns about leadership, experience, and what is happening behind the scenes at the organization's headquarters.

peacefulpete

The names change but the game stays the same.

19

The World Today

by peacefulpete in

jw
friends

i've been meaning to share some recent experiences that defy the usual tropes about the 'world gone to hell' or 'people now days".. as some of you may remember i was seriously ill for a while and had to close my business and shop.

now, as it seems i have beaten it, i put up a sign again advertising that in a limited way i'm back.. what amazes me is how many times over the past 2 years customers and even competition have written and called to express their concern and best wishes.

just last week i had a personal visit of someone who i thought of as a rival, come in and shake my hand sincerely happy to see me up and around.

peacefulpete

I've been meaning to share some recent experiences that defy the usual tropes about the 'world gone to hell' or 'people now days".

As some of you may remember I was seriously ill for a while and had to close my business and shop. Now, as it seems I have beaten it, I put up a sign again advertising that in a limited way I'm back.

What amazes me is how many times over the past 2 years customers and even competition have written and called to express their concern and best wishes. Just last week I had a personal visit of someone who I thought of as a rival, come in and shake my hand sincerely happy to see me up and around. Just last Thurs I got a call from a former customer who just wanted to know how I was doing. He and his wife were talking about me and felt compelled to express themselves. Over the last couple years, I've had two letters, an anonymous box of pears (we talked about our tree not producing) and over a dozen phone calls out of the blue from people who were aware of my situation and wished me well and shared positive stories about recovery. None of these people were relatives or people I'd have called friends....they were just customers with big hearts.

I know the world is going through a rough patch and I'm not blind to the selfishness of some, but I get downright pissed when people suggest the world is irredeemably bad and that love and decency are things of the past. There not, they are all around us.

73

JWN, 23 years posting Blondie

by blondie in

jw
friends

can i call you friends, i think so after 23 years posting here.

i am dismayed how jwn is being "dominated" or taken over by a few posters, peppering the comments.

in the past, the admin did not approve of this and did remove some posters from jwn.

peacefulpete

What is missing is you. Start threads about positive experiences, ask sincere Bible questions. Share about music and books, the new schooling you've begun or whatever.

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

Slim, it was precisely that expression lifted from context, which I sought to clarify for you.

I really don't think we wish to get into a debate about Philo's word choice and what he meant by them so as to debate how similar John's use of the philosophy was; however, the point is Philo is resolute that in reality there is One. The Logos, the Son of God, is a manifestation of the divine that otherwise is undefinable and inscrutable. It stands as a 'second god' in that it stands in for God yet does not result in two Gods. Logos is all that we as humans think of as God because The God is beyond our comprehension and description.

https://antiquitasviva.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/65.1-2.05.-todorovska-m.-the-concepts-of-the-logos-in-philo-of-alexandria.pdf

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

The Jew, Philo described the Logos as an archangel and a secondary god around the time that the gospel of John was written.

Philo, like the writer of G.John, represents a bridge between Greek Logos and the Hebrew OT. He uses language familiar to Jewish readers like 'archangel' but does not suggest the Logos is a secondary god, in fact he argues against that. He/it/she is God's word in action. As such it not in the fullest sense all that God is but it is not apart from God either. A number of authors have seen in his comments an equivalence to John 1 even to the detail of the definite article.

Philosophy, especially one trying to use language not intended for that purpose is necessarily opaque. The 'Two Powers" conceptualization is in play, but Philo is clear he does not mean 'Two Gods".

But when it is said I am the God who was seen of thee 
in the place of God we must ask: "Are there then two 
Gods," as the phrase suggests? He that is truly God is 
one, but they who are loosely so called are many. Where- 
fore the holy Word uses the definite article of him who 
is truly God, and not of the many. In the present instance 
it is his most ancient Logos that is called God — not that 
the writer is superstitious about the application of terms, 
but because he sets one goal before himself to keep to his 
system. For no name belongs rightly to the Absolute, who 
is of a nature to exist simply, not to be described

I realize you have a prior conviction regarding the complete individuality in Jesus, and this resists the notion that Christ could be a personification of the Word of the God of the Jews. This is of course not the Trinity doctrine nor is it the Arian position, both were literalizations/rationalizations of the Christ figure of Paul and the earliest Christians, that is in a large way the result of the Gospel dramatization being mistaken as history.