Whether it's politicians or clergy doing the promising, the New World Order only has room for some.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
-
16
New World, New World Order, New System of Things
by blondie inthe wts has used to above terms, over the years, some more preferred in certain time periods.
more though, but these occurred to me first.
also the terms "new world" and "new world order" have been used by some us presidents and other leaders..
-
-
-
72
What the new JW light position really is đź‘Ť
by ElderBerry ini’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.
as my fellow elders are.
we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.
-
-
peacefulpete
Slimboyfat....If I was passionate about saving the whales and spent years actively and financially supporting a 'Save the Whales' organization only to learn they in fact were not what they appeared to be. My money had been only spent on real estate, self-promotion and colorful brochures. My time and efforts had not saved a single whale. Would I not be the greatest of hypocrites and charlatans if I subsequently continued promoting the organization and recruited others to donate to it.
How much more would that be the case if lives were involved.
I do not pretend that the WT or the Christian Scientists or the Hari Krishnas, or any of the world's many delusional or controlling sects, are going anywhere. I can only control where I'm going.
-
72
What the new JW light position really is đź‘Ť
by ElderBerry ini’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.
as my fellow elders are.
we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.
-
-
peacefulpete
A year ago, Elderberry, you were angry at the lies and wasted years of your life preaching. You were an innocent victim then, now your choice to continue as a leader in their deception and promotion of their activity makes you no different from them. Those who look up to you and believe your talks or are persuaded by the WT you directed them to, are the victims. -
5
Ebion
by peacefulpete inearly christianity was every bit, if not more, diverse than christianity today.
one of the very early sects was named the ebionites.
we have unfortunately nothing left of their own writings apart from a few quotes from what epiphanius believed was their recension of matthew.
-
-
peacefulpete
Hey Phizzy, the ancient Ebionites are long gone, according to google there have been a few groups using the name in modern times.
The point I was making was the all too human bias and slander of other branches of Christianity. So much of what they wrote was based upon mistaken identity, ignorance, rumor and speculation. In this case an imaginary evil historical founder was assumed and embroidered with an entire biography and fictional narrative. The longer the legend perpetuated the more detailed it became. It would be like assuming there was an historical person named Angle starting the Anglican Church then attacking his character and personal life. Reading Epiphanius's hate filled descriptions tells me much more about him and his movement than his opponents.
-
5
Ebion
by peacefulpete inearly christianity was every bit, if not more, diverse than christianity today.
one of the very early sects was named the ebionites.
we have unfortunately nothing left of their own writings apart from a few quotes from what epiphanius believed was their recension of matthew.
-
-
peacefulpete
Early Christianity was every bit, if not more, diverse than Christianity today. One of the very early sects was named the Ebionites. We have unfortunately nothing left of their own writings apart from a few quotes from what Epiphanius believed was their recension of Matthew. Tertullian mentions Ebion the founder:
...This view of the matter could have suited
Ebion, who determines that Jesus is a bare man, merely of the
seed of David, and therefore not also the Son of God-...Now let us put our case less figuratively. It was not feasible for the Son of God to be born of human seed, lest, if he were wholly the son of man, he should not also be the Son of God, and should be in no sense greater than Solomon or than Jonah, as in Ebion's view we should have to regard him.Pseudo-Tertullian in Against all Heresies says Ebion was a successor to Cerithus:
His successor was Ebion, who did not agree with Cerinthus in every respect, claiming that the world was made by God, not by angels, and because it is written, No disciple is above his master, nor servant above his lord, he also proposes the law, namely to exclude the gospel and vindicate Judaism.
Epiphanius' ' Panarion' describes in rather insulting fashion the founder and leader of the sect Ebion.
Following these and holding views like theirs, Ebion, the founder of the Ebionites, arose in the world in his turn as a monstrosity with many forms, and practically represented in himself the snake-like form of the mythical many-headed hydra. He was of the Nazoraeans’ school, but preached and taught other things than they...... Ebion, in reverse, took any and every doctrine which was dreadful, lethal, disgusting, ugly and unconvincing, thoroughly contentious, from every sect, and patterned himself after them all...... For although he is Samaritan, he rejects the name because of its objectionability. And while professing himself a Jew, he is the opposite of the Jews.....In the first place, he said that Christ was conceived by sexual intercourse and the seed of a man, Joseph —I have already said that he agreed with the others in everything, with this one difference, his adherence to Judaism’s Law of the Sabbath, circumcision, and all the other Jewish and Samaritan observances. But like the Samaritans he goes still further than the Jews. He added the rule about taking care not to touch a gentile; and that every day, if a man has been with a woman6 and has left her, he must immerse himself in water— any water he can find, the sea or any other. Moreover, if he should meet anyone while returning from his immersion and bath in the water, he runs back again for another immersion, often even with his clothes on!... he first lived in a village called Cocabe in the district of Qarnaim—also called Ashtaroth—in Bashanitis. There he began his evil teaching....Ebion too preached in Asia and Rome,...
Epiphanius adds a narrative involving the Apostle John and Ebion:
...St. John himself was preaching in Asia, it is reported that he did an extraordinary thing as an example of the truth. Although his way of life was most admirable and appropriate to his apostolic rank and he never bathed, he was compelled to approach the bath by the Holy Spirit who said, “Look what is at the bath!” To his companions’ surprise he actually went to the bathing-room, approached the attendant who took the bathers’ clothes, and asked who was inside in the bathing-room. And the attendant stationed there to watch the clothes—some people do this for a living in the gymnasia—said to St. John, “Ebion is inside.” Becoming disturbed at once and crying out John said in an aside audible to all—as a testimony in evidence of undefiled doctrine—“Let’s get out of here in a hurry, brothers, or the bath may fall and bury us along with the person who is inside in the bathing room, Ebion, because of his impiety.”
So here find the Church Fathers have detailed a biography for Ebion including his mentor, his hometown, mentions his parents giving a prophetic name to their son, his preaching travels and his teaching. He caps it off with an account of John's personally meeting the man.
Problem is there was no man named Ebion, his is a phantom of the later writers, a purely assumed personage. The name Ebionites meaning 'poor' was adopted by the group as they shared an strict asceticism involving renouncing material things. They did not have a founder named Ebion.
-
47
What does God eat ?
by stan livedeath inbeans ?
( human beans ).
to those of you that believe in god: do you all believe the same thing ?.
-
-
-
47
What does God eat ?
by stan livedeath inbeans ?
( human beans ).
to those of you that believe in god: do you all believe the same thing ?.
-
-
peacefulpete
Halcon, The suggestion is that the description of John in the 'wilderness', (the new Elijah, also wearing camel hair and belt) originally paralleled the story of Elijah in this detail as well. In 1 Kings 19 LXX Elijah is fed angelically supplied 'cakes' in the 'wilderness'. The food of angels was manna that was made into cakes and taste like honey as you recall.
The Greek word (AKRIDES) locusts, and (EGKRIDES) cakes are very similar in sound and spelling making it an easy mistake to make. Therefore, IMO it is more probable that the Gospel of the Ebionites preserves the original reading.
The larger hypothesis is that much of what is ascribed to Q was John tradition, including the story of 40 days in wilderness.
-
47
What does God eat ?
by stan livedeath inbeans ?
( human beans ).
to those of you that believe in god: do you all believe the same thing ?.
-
-
peacefulpete
This might seem off the wall to many but there are real reasons to suspect some of the narrative and sayings attributed to Jesus were originally connected with John the Baptist. That is a huge topic but in this particular thread it should be mentioned that the Elijah story of being sustained with angelic honey/manna/food for 40 days in the wilderness was quite likely originally repeated in the John the B. story and only later shifted to Jesus. Not only does that make more sense typologically, (John=Elijah) but there also appears to be echos in the extant Gospel description of John. He lives in the 'wilderness' and eats honey/manna/cakes. The 'locust' thing is a scribal error. (Greek 'Locust' and 'Cake' are very similar.) The Gospel of the Ebionites as quoted by Epiphanius retains the honey/manna cakes.
He had a garment of camels' hair, and a leather girdle about his loins. And his meat was wild honey, which tasted like manna, formed like cakes of oil.
-
4
Baptism on Fire
by peacefulpete ingoing through justin martyr's dialogue with trypho yesterday, i found a variation on the baptism scene :.
88. and let this be a proof to you, namely, what i told you was done by the magi from arabia, who as soon as the child was born came to worship him, for even at his birth he was in possession of his power; and as he grew up like all other men, by using the fitting means, he assigned its own [requirements] to each development, and was sustained by all kinds of nourishment, and waited for thirty years, more or less, until john appeared before him as the herald of his approach, and preceded him in the way of baptism, as i have already shown.
and then, when jesus had gone to the river jordan, where john was baptizing, and when he had stepped into the water, a fire was kindled in the jordan; and when he came out of the water, the holy ghost lighted on him like a dove, [as] the apostles of this very christ of ours wrote.
-
-
peacefulpete
I ran across another interesting tradition in a fragmentary liturgical text of the 5th century in which the ground shakes as Jesus rises from the water.
(P.Berol. 11633, lines 29-45):
(29) We were filled with great joy (30) upon seeing the Jordan (31) when the one born upon earth as a man (32–34) appeared in it and the forerunner himself listened to your voice saying, “Let us (35) complete the plans of the Father.” (36) “Like the Lord wanted,” (37) said John. You, Christ, came down (38) into the water, The mountains leaped (39) like rams and the hills like a lamb (40) of the sheep. As you arose (41) from the Jordan a voice has (42) come from the sky to you (43) “This one is my beloved (44) Son in whom I am well pleased. (45) Fear him.”
-
20
Did Watchtower Really Teach That Armageddon Was Coming in 1954?
by Jerome56 inin the march 2025 jw broadcast david splane in his morning worship talk mentioned that "some thought" that armageddon would come 40 years after 1914. such statements are usually meant to shift the blame of their own false predictions on to their members for speculating.
however, i was unable to find anything in print showing that such a thing was indeed taught by the society.
was this really a thing?.
-
-
peacefulpete
deleted