Perry

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Posts by Perry

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  48

  A few questions for believers

  by keyser soze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.

  so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.

  and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".

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  Perry

  Mad Giant,

  Are not you basically asking if Jesus is really just a Copy-Cat Savior Myth "borrowed" from other Gods?

  I read this years ago and it helped me to see things in a more scholarly way.
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  8

  History of the church/Christianity, etc.

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have learned a great deal from some of the very erudite posters on this site (thank you).. for many years i've been interested in the history of the development of christianity, not only from its earliest days but through the reformation, etc., and through to the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries when denominations, sects, cults took off in all directions like exploding fireworks.. i was aware, in broad terms, of luther, calvin and the development of protestantism from which so many denominations and sects (including jws) arose.

  i was vaguely aware of the schism (1,000 years ago) between the western (catholic) and eastern (orthodox) churches and was tangentially interested as to why it happened (if the 'east' was the home of christianity, how come the 'west' disagreed with it?).

  i was quite interested to read, while living in cyprus, a greek orthodox english language bible which had a large section in the back about the schism.

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  Perry

  Here is a page from my website that deals with Christian History, both Apostate and Biblical.

  The book featured there is quite revealing in tracing bible Christians from the first century to the present.

  This chart may also be helpful.
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  48

  A few questions for believers

  by keyser soze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.

  so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.

  and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".

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• 

  Perry

  When confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible...

  Isn't that kinda poisoning the well?

  Most of the popularly cited "inconsistencies and attrocities" are dealt with here and here from a biblical and historical perspective. Other worldviews are effectively dealt with here and here.

  Essentially we are under condemnation from the womb. If you think we have a right to life, then MUCH of what God has done will appear wrong.

  And please don't tell me "The lord has revealed himself to me".

  Here's a list of things that from what I have personally experienced and learned may prevent God from revealing himself to a person, even though he is familiar with Jesus:

  1. A person must be willing to say good-bye to all his worldly posessions and even his own mother and father.

  2. He must abandon himself to Jesus.

  3. He must not only believe in Jesus as a historical figure but trust in him. For me, the kind of trust that it took for God to accept me is similar to jumping out of an airplane with a parachute on. People either fail to jump, or they fail to pull the rip cord, or they pull the rip cord of something other than the parachute, which is Christ our Savior. Most of us as JW's took the jump, but the cord we pulled wasn't Jesus Christ, it was the Watchtower corporation and our works. We might as well have tried to just flap our arms. The crash was inevetible.

  4. A person will fail to have God revealed to him personally if he puts his trust in Jesus AND ________________ (anything else). Jesus utterly rejects such a person.

  5. Failure to Repent

  I repented a number of times as a JW and afterwards but failed in the other respects.... never met God in those circumstances. Later, when I did it the biblical way, I did. The bottom line is that there is much more to getting right with God than a casual belief in Jesus. You must be born again or you will definitely never meet God in this life and in the next there is only a meeting at Judgment for your sins to expect.

  Hope this helps.
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  7

  Anyone here at the Natick Mass Assembly Hall dedication in the early 70's

  by sparky1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Perry

  Very interesting. Thanks for that post Sparky. Few modern JW's are aware of how they were thrown under the bus by their leaders:

  YOU ARE NOT JUSTIFIED

  The ...“other sheep”, [non 144,000] are in a different condition. …They are still human

  creatures, not even justified, - Wt. 38 p.104, 105

  JEHOVAH IS NOT YOUR FATHER

  “he is not yet giving the ‘other sheep’ the standing of sons….

  they address him prospectively as ‘Our Father’.” - Wt. 8/15/45 p. 253

  JESUS IS NOT YOUR MEDIATOR

  in a “strict Biblical sense Jesus is the ‘mediator’ only for anointed

  Christians.” [The 144,000] - Wt.4/1/79 p. 31

  This creates a problem for Jehovah's Witnesses: Roman 3: 10 says that "there is no one righteous , no not one." And, 1 Cor. 6: 9 & 10 reads: Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? And, Jesus told Nicodemus 3 TIMES that you have to be born-again (be justified) to either "see" or "enter" the Kingdom of God. So, without being one of the annointed, a person cannot inherit, see or enter the Kingdom.

  This obviously applies to everyone. To prove the point: The "great crowd" or tribulation survivors (as Christians generally refer to them) in Rev. 7 had ALREADY "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb" - the white robes are an indication of their righteous standing through their new covenant membership.

  "Therefore, those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation." - Romans 8: 1 NWT

  The ONLY way to be "in union with Jesus" is through the New Covenant, also known as the blood covenant - the payment price for our personal sins. The watchtower leaders tricked people into essentially choosing condemnation as opposed to a full pardon on judgment day.

  In other words, witnesses now reject Jesus' "gospel of salvation" ..... in the name of Jesus, of course.

  "you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed: - Eph 1: 13 NWT
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  34

  Is truth relative?

  by Pinku in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  seeing various/changing laws on the same action, some may feel truth is relative, and there is no such thing as right and wrong.. yet a closer look at beneath the details would show that truth is not relative, and everyone knows what is right and wrong.. driving in the night by putting the head-light off is wrong, but right when country is in war with another country.

  behind both the conflicting laws, the truth is same: safety and welfare of the people.

  this is true of notion about what is right and wrong:.

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  Perry

  If someone peddles the truth that there is no truth, why should I believe him?

  There are no eternal facts, as there are no absolute truths.
  – Friedrich Nietzsche: Human, All-too-Human

  It is impossible for us, of our own volition to have a God's eye view of the universe. So, many like to say truth is subjective, and as such is subject to alteration because that statement relates to our subjective experience in our environment. However, truth could exist outside of our personal experience and we would be none the wiser. For instance, if a man is charged with killing his neighbor, he either did it or not. Our beliefs about the guilt or innocence is quite outside of the "Gods-eye" view.

  So, I guess I'm arguing for , no.
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  83

  Blown away-- where to go from here

  by All for show in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i stumbled upon this website a few weeks ago due to the jw.org ridiculousness, since then i haven't been able to pull myself away.

  the thoughts, feelings, and concerns i have had the past few years aren't just mine.

  it's global.

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  Perry

  When I have gone out I get put with some 18 -20 year old pioneer girls so they can 'assist and encourage' me and help with whichever kids I have. How ridiculous, I end up taking the doors and they are 'shocked' how well I can speak to householders and such. What this tells me is they have judged me, some punk teenagers with little to No life experience are going to encourage me, a married women with children, and actual life experience. Ha. Ha.

  How most meetings what we hear is so hypocritical is just absurd.

  

  This fine pioneer sister was having similar negative feelings. She humbly felt the need to have her thinking readjusted.

  

  The elders were able to utilize a new electronic service through JW.org to pinpoint an area of brain activity that had not yet fully submitted to the directions of the Faithful and Discreet Slave. After several treatments, she is now not only able to tolerate chatty teenaged sisters assigned to assist and encourage her, she even helps them with their homework!

  What a fine outcome there is when things are practiced according to arrangement.
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  22

  Observations from a day at the zoo

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. family

  so we went to calgary zoo today and i'm torn between zoo's being great for conservation vs using animals to make money.

  i think on the whole they are a good thing but it's sad to see some of the animals caged up - somehow i always end up staring into the eyes of a gorilla and it makes me sad.. but that isn't what struck me ... it's these things:.

  http://www.amazon.com/step2-wagon-two-plus-blue/dp/b0048wqhgw/ref=zg_bs_166419011_2.

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  Perry

  Cookie, a Major Mitchel Cockatoo is pushing 80 years at this zoo.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9crMt1Ro3oQ
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  4

  Role Play of Matthew 24:14

  by God_Delusion in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello my lovelies x,.

  i've just written an article which portrays parts of matthew 24, and especially verse14, which i've always found extremely implausible to comprehend.

  i've written it in role play fashion, and i hope you find it interesting.. here's the link to my article - http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/jehovahs-witness-prophecies/are-jehovahs-witnesses-false-prophets/.

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  Perry

  Please let me know if you understand what 'Good News' Jesus was referring to, because I certainly can't find any good in the news he's giving his followers.

  But you also hoped in him after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed - Eph 1: 13 NWT

  I never heard this scipture quoted once as a JW either at home or the KH. However growing up, I did hear about "good news of the kingdom" seemingly about every 3rd sentence someone would utter. The salvation that Jesus offered was from judgment after death..... not the battle of armageddon; which btw is about the wrath of Satan as he attacks Israel, not God wiping out people for not accepting magazines at their doors.
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  83

  Blown away-- where to go from here

  by All for show in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i stumbled upon this website a few weeks ago due to the jw.org ridiculousness, since then i haven't been able to pull myself away.

  the thoughts, feelings, and concerns i have had the past few years aren't just mine.

  it's global.

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• 

  Perry

  Blown away-- where to go from here

  Hi there All for Show, and welcome. I too was a 4th gen born-in (regular pioneer) with lots of elders and MS in my immediate and extended family. Congratulations on waking up.

  When Jesus asked Peter if he also did not want to leave him when faced with something he did not understand, Peter asked, "Lord, to whom shall we go away to"?

  I have personally found that to be an extremely relevant question at different stages in my life after the Tower. The subtelty from "where" to "whom" is easy to miss but makes all the difference in the world.

  My wife and I & three children go to a non-denominational bible church with traditional music and services. We have really "taken off" as a family since joining and learning about the basics - justification, sanctification, salvation, substitutional atonement ....etc.

  My website is www.bibleready.org
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  51

  The Great Crowd Catch 22

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just had a two hour conversation with my father.

  he is insistent that he will be able to enter the kingdom of god as a member of the 'great crowd'.

  he did agree that only the annointed are declared righteous.

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  Perry

  We are saved by grace through faith. When you identify the "grace" and the "faith" there is no contridiction. Every bible church I have ever been to deals with these issues on a fairly regular basis so that people don't deceive themselves.

  Generally belief precedes actions. The one tells about the nature of the other. For instance if a person really believed that they were declared righteous by the blood covenant, they would want to partake of the emblems as Jesus commanded. They would believe him. If they do not partake, then it brings into question whether or not they really believe. Most of the time, belief precedes obedience just as unbelief precedes disobedience.

  The part about being born again is strictly an action of God. It follows everything that precedes it: grace>belief>action>born again - in that order.

  James is simply a "straight shooter" - Faith without works is dead. Of course, how could it be any other way? In others words, if works do not accompany belief & grace , especially over time, it calls into question the beginning of it all: belief.

  Included in that belief, is denial of the old self. A person may believe Jesus intellectually, but they may still want to hang on to their old personhood. They have grown used to it even though it has caused them much pain. It is predictable, and our flesh finds some small comfort in predictableness. If a person is doing this, then they really haven't believed Jesus when he said that it would cost you all you had to follow him. In another place, he said a person would have to be willing to say good bye to his mother and father. In still another place he said that a peson would have to "lose" his life in order to find it. All of these "cost" related items are encapsulated in the term: believing upon Jesus.

  I think trust is a better word to capture the biblical concept. Think of jumping out of an airplane with a parachute, and then flapping your arms to try and slow yourself down. Similarly, our works were never designed to get the job done. However, our belief and trust is what unleashes God in our life by means of the blood of Christ, our personal sin payment.

  The part that is of most concern to us with a JW background, is that the works that we read about among believers in the NT are not from us. They are God generated by the new spirit acquired at the new birth. Eph 2: 10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works