Who's got it wrong - the Bible or the "faithful slave?"

by The Searcher in

according to the self-proclaimed "faithful and discreet slave" of jehovah's witnesses, all sorts of evil things are going to be allowed to occur during christ's 1000 year reign!

it-2 p. 789 resurrection - "they are judged, not on what they did before hearing his voice, but on what they do after hearing it.

re chap.

Drearyweather

Since you have used JW language so heavily, I will try to use JW logic while replying.

My 2 cents:

JWs think that the evil in this world is caused due to 2 main reasons:

1. Satan

2. Imperfection

During the 1000 year rule, Satan would be in the abyss, while people would be gradually moving towards being perfect. Since the source of evil is not there, what are the chances that evil would occur. There are, because humans would still be free moral agents. But very less chances, in fact negligible. However, the greatest test would occur when Satan is let out of the abyss. This is because JW's quote the following:

pe. page 182. Then, after their resurrection, it was easy for them to serve Jehovah because of living in Paradise without any opposition from the Devil. But will these billions of humans, who are then perfect, serve Jehovah if Satan is given the opportunity to try to stop them from further doing so? .....The Bible shows that Satan is successful in turning some persons away from serving Jehovah.

So, will JW's need to worry about occurrence of evil during the 1000 year reign without Satan, the source of evil, around? It would be like me asking someone, Do you now live with the fear the you or your family would get infected with small pox or spanish flu, now that those viruses have been contained?

29

Disfellowshipped for being complicit in someone else's sin - really?!

by Isambard Crater in

a close friend of mine who is pimo (only staying in for family reasons) in a neighboring congregation called me in tears tonight saying her dad (elder) is telling her he is seriously considering reporting her to her local elders and she could get disfellowshipped.. the reason?

because she is complicit in a gross sin, according to him, by going with her best friend (not a j.w.

) when the friend had an abortion.

Drearyweather

the friend who had an abortion is registered blind and suffers from PTSD so could hardly travel 2 hours and 30 miles to the clinic on her own, and she had nobody to support her, so my PIMO J.W. friend went with her.

Sorry to hear about the friend. However, abortion is a serious decision and should be done only after consultation with parents or other relatives or mature individuals. Was this an unexpected pregnancy? or was the abortion done for medical reasons to avoid physical complications to the mother? People suffering from PTSD become very vulnerable during such uneventful time and the best way the JW friend could have helped her was to either discuss this with her parents or other mature individuals. I hope she must have done this.

my PIMO J.W. friend strongly felt that her vulnerable friend needed support at this emotional time. Little did she know it could get her DF'ed.

Daughter of an elder and does not that seriousness of this? As a JW, she does know that pre-marital sex and abortion is a serious issue in the JW world, and thus she should have spoken to her parents about the friend and her problems before going with her to the clinic. If she is still a JW due to family reasons, as your OP says, then she should have done this all the more so to avoid future confrontations with her parents.

PIMO or POMO, unless you write a letter of disassociation, you are pretty much under the ambit of JW rules. and you are expected to follow them or risk being expelled.

And thats pretty much true in other situations too. If you post on this forum, you have to follow the forum posting rules or get kicked out.

47

Putin presents the Order of Parental Glory to a Russian Jehovah's Witness family

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54643.

presenting the order of parental gloryon the eve of international children’s day, vladimir putin presented the order of parental glory to parents of large families.

the recipients included families from astrakhan and yaroslavl regions, the republics of karelia, buryatia, north ossetia-alania, perm and primorye territories, and khanty-mansi autonomous area – yugra.the order of parental glory was established by a presidential executive order signed in may 2008 and is awarded to parents (or adoptive parents) raising 7 or more children and ensuring due care for their health, education, and physical, spiritual and moral development.

Drearyweather

The title of the thread should be:

Putin presents the Order of Parental Glory to a Russian extremist family

19

The number of translations boast

by Just stopping by in

just stopping by to share this... .

after seeing a watchtower representative paste the same thing over and over, about jw.org being available in 850 languages.... we all know how the watchtower loves to boast about the number of languages it translates into.

what are the facts?

Drearyweather

It's translation of the Bible, NWT, 128.
Faith Comes By Hearing has translated the Bible into 1,084 languages, and counting...

Are you sure about this? i.e. Has Faith Comes By Hearing translated the Bible into 1,084 languages? or has it just provided audio versions of already translated Bibles?

In their Annual Report I found the following sentence: "New Field partnerships are opening doors for us to empower and equip many others to help record God's word in thousands of languages which have translations available."

Since you are comparing 128 languages of the NWT with 1084 languages of the FCBH, please correct me if I am wrong, because translating the Bible and audio recording an existing translation are two completely different activities with a whole lot of different complexities involved.

24

Do WT Publications Make Us Feel Unworthy, Unlovable and Helpless?

by jp1692 in

it is my contention that the wtbts, (as do all high-control, authoritarian cults), deliberately cultivates dysfunctional beliefs among its members.

in particular, the most destructive of these beliefs are those that undermine one's feelings of self-worth.

for a research project i am doing, i am looking for direct quotes from wt publications that seem to be specifically designed to manipulate the readers into feeling: unworthy, unlovable, inadequate and/or helpless.

Drearyweather

The bible does that too:

Romans 7:24:Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?

Jeremiah 10:23: I know, LORD, that our lives are not our own. We are not able to plan our own course.

Proverbs 3:5: Trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.

Ecclesiastes 7:20: Not a single person on earth is always good and never sins.

Romans 3:23: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

1 Cor 3:18: Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.

and so on

9

Jehovahs Witness organization were never approved by Jesus Christ in 1919

by smiddy in

according to jehovahs witness beliefs/doctrines , dont they acknowledge that the international bible students association , ibsa , were the ones with charles taze russell as the president as being the organization that jesus christ appointed over all his belongings and nominated them as the one true religion to dispense food at the proper time ?.

when joseph f rutherford took over the organization contrary to charles taze russells instructions regarding a successor did that negate the appointment that jesus christ gave ?

i think so .how about you.. and then changing the name that jesus christ gave his blessing to the ibsa for jehovahs witnesses under j.f.rutherford to change that name which was pre-christian and has no basis in the new testament which is all about witnessing acknowledgeing and highlighting the name of jesus above every other name as is stated time and time again in the christian greek scriptures,.

Drearyweather

dont they acknowledge that The International Bible Students association , IBSA , were the ones with Charles taze Russell as the president as being the organization that Jesus Christ appointed over all his belongings

No. CT Russell died back in 1916. During the appointment in 1919, Rutherford was the president.

20

Simple question for everyone

by kairos in

jw
friends

q. how do you explain the millions that have left or were dfd/dad from jws?.

a. no evidence exists that it is the truth.. case closed....

Drearyweather

That scripture never seemed to fit with the relatively few that make up the JW population.

This scripture doesn't imply that 8 million make up the great crowd, or only JW's will be a part of the Great Crowd. This is stated in the JW book "God's Kingdom Rules":

It seems reasonable that the destruction of “Babylon the Great” refers mainly to the destruction of the religious institutions, not to a wholesale slaughter of all religious people. Hence, most of Babylon’s former adherents will survive that destruction and, at least openly, will then likely try to distance themselves from religion, as indicated at Zechariah 13:4-6.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102014263

1

1987 Disfellowshipping Case - Paul v. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York Inc

by Drearyweather in

jw
friends

this was a case where in june 1987, the united states court of appeals for the 9th circuit upheld the witnesses' right to shun those who fail to live by the group's standards and doctrines, upholding the ruling of a lower court.. http://openjurist.org/819/f2d/875.

has there been any cases after this, where df cases went to court?

have there been cases in other countries were df decisions were challenged and reversed?

Drearyweather

This was a case where in June 1987, the United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld the Witnesses' right to shun those who fail to live by the group's standards and doctrines, upholding the ruling of a lower court.

http://openjurist.org/819/f2d/875

Has there been any cases after this, where DF cases went to court? Have there been cases in other countries were DF decisions were challenged and reversed?

14

Just because something is old, does not mean it is "Special" or "Sacred" or "Valuable"

by stuckinarut2 in

a thought occurred to me that simply because something is old does not make it valuable or worthy of sacred reverence.. the bible is held up as sacred just because it is "old" and apparently preserved.. but, that does not make sense.

if in thousands of years someone finds a notebook of my scribbles or sketches that i threw away, that doesn't elevate them to "valuable status" simply because they survived.

they were thrown away because they were worthless.. or if an archaeologist finds an ancient broken bit of pottery that was used for garbage disposal, it doesn't change its status from what it once was - a garbage bin.. i guess what i am trying to ask is, why is it that we as humans give value to writings just because they are old?.

Drearyweather

But, that does not make sense. If in thousands of years someone finds a notebook of my scribbles or sketches that I threw away, that doesn't elevate them to "valuable status" simply because they survived. They were thrown away because they were worthless.

A thousand years from today, someone who is interested in studying the paper material, ink, cardboard etc of our day would find your notebook interesting. He may not be concerned about what your notes or sketches are.

However, if the personal diary of someone like Anne Frank comes up, many would read and value it and probably learn from it.

May be no one in the world worships Artemis or ancient Greek gods. But that does not stop people from visiting ancient temples and ruins, just for the sake of antiquity.

So why is the Bible special? For some it is simply a piece of writing compiled thousands of years ago. For some, it a sacred book that needs to be revered and for some it is nothing but garbage.

Would someone value a 4,000 year old piece of pottery sherd or a garbage bin kept in a museum? If no one valued such things, we wouldn't have museums around.

I guess what I am trying to ask is, why is it that we as humans give value to writings just because they are old?

Because some writings give valuable insight on the way things were in the ancient civilizations, and sometimes they may be just a piece of papyrus with a single letter scribbled on it.

Some people who get convinced by them, choose to believe it and live by it.

24

Uninvited...again...

by Anders Andersen in

jw
friends

so a week or so ago we received an invitation for a jw friend's wedding anniversary party in the mail.it was addressed to 'the andersen family' (and not just mrs. andersen & baby andersen) which was pleasant of course, but not a huge surprise given the type of person who said friend is.. however, i already prepared myself to be uninvited after all.

some time ago, there was a congregation farewell party/get-together.to my surprise, i was invited too!

an elder specifically came over to my house to tell me.then some weeks later, he visited again, being terribly sorry but the invitation was revoked as the congregation got concerned over my possible presence.. with that debacle in mind, i wasn't surprised to receive a message from my friend 'hey are you at home?

Drearyweather

Yesterday he told me I'm not invited anymore as the congregation was getting upset about me being there.

Recently, during the CO visit meeting with the elders, the CO made a point on this. If an elder or a MS organizes a only-JW gathering at his home and is inviting a family where a member is Da'ed or Df'ed or an active apostate, he has two options: either he can revoke the invitation to the family member or tell the other invitees personally that such a person would be present in the party so that they can choose whether to come or not.

Drearyweather

Posts by Drearyweather

Putin presents the Order of Parental Glory to a Russian extremist family