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i remember as a kid being freaked out by two pictures.
one was of the demons floating away leaving their screaming wives and babies during the flood, and the other was the collage with the gas mask guy and the kid holding his hands over his ears and the dead guy with the chopsticks..... oh yes, did i mention that i wasn't allowed to watch the care bears movie as a kid because of the "frightening and demonic" scenes?
What's really sick and twisted is the second (or third?) picture from the top of the Quotes page. It shows destruction and lightning bolts in the background, and then in the foreground are happy, smiling, gleeful little JWs (as if receiving some sort of perverted pleasure at seeing all the destruction).
Talk about really severe and psychotic imagery.
pralis
what's a kingdom song you can remember singing that gives you the creeps now?
mine is "move ahead" i think that was the title, anyway it has so much rhetoric... but the tune is so darn catchy.... darn.... in my opinion, those songs are the perfect example of mind control.
move ahead.. move ahead ... blah blah blah blah blah .
Gopher .... I absolutely died when I listened to that MIDI file!!!!!!!! Oh My God!!!!!! NOW I remember that corny song. That one was soooooo terrible (although I have to say the jazzed-up version is hillarious, especially that three second opening!!!).
And m0nk3y is right-on .... the jazzed-up version sounds like it would be perfect for a video game (I'm thinking of the game "Lemmings", rather apropos don't ya think?).
Oh, and m0nk3y, yes, I had a field service experience where we were "gleefully" singing kingdom songs (YUCK!!). Check out my post from yesterday for the story (5/22).
Too funny!!
Pralis
what's a kingdom song you can remember singing that gives you the creeps now?
mine is "move ahead" i think that was the title, anyway it has so much rhetoric... but the tune is so darn catchy.... darn.... in my opinion, those songs are the perfect example of mind control.
move ahead.. move ahead ... blah blah blah blah blah .
I have been sitting here reading all these replies, laughing my head off, with my co-workers wondering what I'm on!!!!
I've been away for about ten years, now, and it's difficult to match the titles with the tunes. Although there was one I really couldn't stand. It was the one that started out all doom and gloom "DARK TIMES ARE HERE .... bla bla bla" and then it transitions into this happy "everyone will die but we will live" tune. It was frightening, and almost foreboding. It's like, at the end of the first run-through, it would start all over again, "DUH DUH DA DA!!!!!"
The song "From house to house, from door to door," I can't recall the tune at all. Anyone have a sound file of it?
I remember at the Jersey City Assembly Hall back in 1989 I was sitting right in front of this unusually tall, snooty sister, dressed like a 1960's stewardess (her dress was all red, green and black plaid, with a hat to match .. it remains to this day the most abominable outfit I've ever seen). Every time we'd sing, she would bellow so horrifically I thought I would evaporate. And it wasn't just teribly loud. It was like a stadium full of cats on cocaine and in heat. And her voice was low instead of high pitched. I mean, it was strange. I would just stand there crying and laughing (and dying) because I simply couldn't concentrate. And yes, she was entirely tone-deaf.
Then there was the time in field service (a time in my life where I MUST have put my brain on a shelf), there was me and two sisters (the one sister was ancient and had a scary giggle) driving back to the kingdom hall. So the old sister decided it would be JUST WONDERFUL for all of us to sing to Jehovah (*GAG*). And since she was one of the "anointed" it made it a bit more awkward for us to say no (I was just out of high school and very impressionable). So sing we did, and it was terrible. And what was even scarier is that we were smiling and loving how "blessed" we were that we were not going to die in the fiery cataclysm awaiting all those people who didn't take our magazines that day. Those big, bad worldly people!!! How we loved to sing happily about their destruction.
Pralis
the wts always talks about how wrong it was for the pharisees to make an endless number of rules.
but the wts is guilty of the same thing.
you can't have a beard... you can't watch rated r movies... you must report your field service activity... you cannot go to costume parties... you can have some blood fractions but not whole blood... you can't read any stuff that is against our opinion... yadda yadda yadda.. my mom (an active jw) argues that theses are not rules but only guidelines.
Hmm. I would disagree with your mom ... the WTS statements ARE rules, not guidelines. If they were merely guidelines, then one wouldn't expect such severe penalties such as the disfellowshipping or "marking" that would occur if one, say, decided NOT to abide by the "guidelines."
And, yes, I too hate religion.
pralis
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i have been informed on good authority (a dub for 27 years) that you cannot get disfelowshiped for committing a wrongdoing, only for being unrepentant.. can anyone tell me if this is true or not, and if it is not where the misunderstanding comes from?
link
Jesus had a far more merciful way of showing compassion and justice. To the woman caught in the act he said "Go your way; from now on practice sin no more." Let the one who is sinless be first to cast a stone. And isn't disfellowshipping a form of stoning without stones? It's still ostracism. Here was a woman who was a KNOWN UNREPENTANT adultress, even Jesus knew that because he told her to practice sin NO MORE (meaning he knew her to be a practicer of sin). But Jesus didn't cast her away at all. He embraced her lovingly and showed her the way to God's open arms. There's also the story of the Prodigal Son who left his Father's house to squander his money and live a debauched life. He came to his senses later, and went home. When he got there, his Father ran to him before he even got through the gate. Now, in the JW congregation, the "father" doesn't run after you when you come home. No, you have to PROVE YOURSELF before they even welcome you back. Usually it takes a year. Instead, the JWs would rewrite the parable like this: "And when the son approached, the father first warned all the children not to associate with him. Then, with caution and seriousness, he tells his son that he must sleep in the basement until the father is convinced he's "clean" enough to be permitted access to the rest of the house. A year later, the son was allowed access to the rest of the house, but the father and the rest of the children were still suspicious of him for a while. So for several more months his father reminded him that he was spiritually weak, and still needed time before he was given any privileges in the house. In this way, my shed blood is not enough to cover his sins. He must work his way to acceptance." THAT is how the JWs behave. There is no mercy. Only a sad, institutionalized legalism. It doesn't reflect Christ's mercy, no matter how the Witnesses dress it up as "loving discipline."
for example: bulletin board.
(from cambridge international dictionary of english).
(british and australian) a notice board (am bulletin board) is a board on a wall on which notices can be fixed.
JWs are so concerned about the ROOTS of certain items, such as birthday celebrations, Christmas, Easter, saying "God bless you" when you sneeze, refraining from saying "good luck", etc. I'm surprised American Witnesses are still using the names for the days of the week, since they're mostly based on Norse gods and goddesses. For example, Wednesday is "Woden's Day". Thursday is "Thor's Day". Friday is "Freya's Day". Saturday is "Saturn's Day". And so on. Can any JW own a Ford "Taurus"? Can they drink Welch's grape juice, since Mr. Welch's ORIGINAL purpose for the Welch's company was to make and supply sacramental wine (which JWs believe is part of pagan worship)?
Yes, it all sounds silly. But that's the whole point.
Pralis
i had a discussion with some greek orthodox members recently.
i was pointing out the disparity between the brutal behavior of "gods people in the o.t.
and the pacifistic way in which jesus was to have behaved in the n.t.. they accounted for this by explaining that god changed during that time.
Remember that Israel was bound to the provisions of the Law Covenant inaugurated at Sinai. A covenant is essentially a contract -- if you do a-b-c then I'll provide x-y-z. One of the clauses of the Law Covenant was that if Israel disobeyed God, began worhsipping other gods, and became involved in the practices the Law strictly prohibited, then Jehovah would punish them accordingly. So in other words, God was simply keeping His end of the contract when He behaved in a brutal way toward His people (who were not keeping their part of the contract).
And remember that after each time He disciplined His people, He ALWAYS implored them to return to Him. His brutal behavior was the prescribed disipline, but it was always with the purpose of turning them back around. In this way He showed an astounding love for Israel, even after all that nation had done.
And no, God does not change. The only thing that changed was the covenant arrangement. Christians are now under the New Covenant, which basically teaches that fellowship with God is through obedience to Christ's teachings and faith in his ransom sacrifice, not through the observance of law codes. The result is everlasting life. In the Old Covenant Jehovah acted immediately when His people were disobedient. Under the New Covenant, there is one day which Jehovah reserves to exact justice and judgment for those who responded favorably or unfavorably to the New Covenant.
Pralis
as i haven't read any jw literature some 10 years or more now, can anyone tell me when was the last time that 1914 was seriously mentioned or discussed in a wt or book or whatever?.
and when was the last time the calculation of the "7 times" which leads to 1914 was actually put down in writing in jw lit?
has it been in a wt study article recently?.
And of course there was that November 1995 Watchtower that seriously changed their thinking on the bogus 1914 doctrine. In that issue they stated that "this generation" no longer really means the generation alive since 1914, but now simply means the generation that will be living at the time of those signs mentioned in Matthew.
There are tremendous and far reaching implications that this change had on many of their other doctrines, such as the Anointed Class doctrine. I remember even in 1991 private discussions in my congregation that since "this generation" will by no means pass away before all these things occur (i.e., the signs of the end), then Armageddon must be coming withing ten or so years, 20 tops. Why did we believe that? Because the WT taught that some anointed would still be alive when Christ came. So we reasoned that since they're so old, and that they'd almost certainly be dead within 10 or 20 years, that Armageddon was imminent.
Of course that all changed in 1995.
However, what troubles me the most is that when they change their teachings they say it is Jehovah who is "stirring" the congregation of His people. That's a rather dangerous assertion. I'm reminded of something from Jeremiah. Jehovah was instructing Jeremiah to expose the error of Israel and Judah, and in so doing went on to say about their prophets: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they have prophesied. Yes," declares the Lord, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The Lord declares.'" (Jeremiah 23:16, 21, 31) Sound familiar? I wonder why they have never asked for forgiveness for the error of their teachings. Jehovah would certainly forgive. Sadly, though, that's not the case.
And it's interesting to imagine that if some Witnesses started teaching at the doors something the GB threw out because of "new light", would they be disfellowshiped for teaching something now considered incorrect?
Pralis
i've always been curious as to the reasons why only "the anointed" were permitted to partake of the emblems at the memorial.
we all know that the wtbts says the "other sheep" are the non-anointed christians who merely observe the memorial (by the way, by "other sheep" jesus was talking about the gentiles that would become part of the new covenant; he wasn't referring to some strange class of non-anointed christians).
they've often compared the situation to the foreigners in the congregation of israel who were not permitted to observe the passover (see exodus 12:38, 43 -- they draw this correlation because the memorial is the replacement for the passover observance).
Hi Justin.
Thanks for those insights.
It's interesting you mentioned the Laymens Home Missionary Movement. That they permit their earthly class to partake of the emblems so as to at least receive the benefits of the ransom seems to have a very Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox flavor (i.e., that the bread and wine somehow truly impart the benefits of the ransom).
I also don't buy the WT arguments as to why the "other sheep" shouldn't partake of the emblems (especially since in the Old Covenant foreigners who became circumcised and gave their oath to obey the Law were considered Israelites, just as much as the fleshly descendants of Isaac...see my notes above). And yes, it does appear that for some reason the GB/WTBTS has this compulsion to promote this "elitist" doctrine, especially when Paul said there is neither Jew nor Greek, freeman nor slave, etc etc.
As for what the truth is . . . well, suffice it to say I'm sure Jesus would tell us it's so much simpler than what so many churches try to push. Immortal soul, going to heaven, slave class/heavenly class, rapture, hellfire, millennium, born again, bla bla bla. As for me, I keep it simple: follow Christ's explicit teachings, continue in love, and wait for him. Plain and simple. Oh, and of course encourage and invite others to do the same. A lot of it has to do with me being convinced to stop worrying about details I needn't be worried about, and let Jehovah take charge of matters. He knows better anyway.
I suppose that's what faith is.
Pralis
i asked him how could it be the true religion with all the numerous doctrinal changes.
this is how he replied to me in an email:.
" another thing mentioned was the apostles (known as the governing body).
Oops!!
Sorry . . . [:|]
