how many of you found that the 'deeper' your comments at the wt or bookstudy, the less the conductor called on you?
This kind of thread bugs me. It just serves as an excuse to pick on people with a Watchtower theme.
No one has any records of the number of times they raised their hands and how many times they were called on. It's all very intuitive and therefore influenced by paranoid (they won't call on me because they hate me for - being poor, too smart, too dumb, ugly, too good looking) or narcisistic (they wouldn't call on moi) attitudes.
I think you will find whatever you're looking for on this one.
palmer: i don't know.
i mean, for me... i need proof.. palmer: proof.
ellie: yes, very much.. palmer: prove it.. [source: http://www.turning-pages.com/contact/machine.htm].
Jim:
I'm not arguing with you. I just keep hoping for something extraordinary. Atheists would love to see their parents again. Atheists would like to have the tears wiped from their eyes. Atheists would like to have a conversation with God.
palmer: i don't know.
i mean, for me... i need proof.. palmer: proof.
ellie: yes, very much.. palmer: prove it.. [source: http://www.turning-pages.com/contact/machine.htm].
Atheism makes sense to me. Everytime I read the deep heartfelt expressions of belief in God I am shaken by the realization that there is NO hope for humans.
So many good minds can't seem to escape the gravitational pull of their own imaginations.
If you can't find absolute proof of god's existence you settle for ambiguous proof of his existence. If ambiguous proof is unsatisfying you try to explain away the need of proof. Finally, refuge is taken in "faith". Faith is only valued because of convention. It is the surrender of intellect. It is a decision to dissociate intellect from ones soul. Faith is just another word for ignor-ance.
Knowledge is the enemy of "faith". It destroys "faith".
I will take knowledge over faith. Faith is just another part of the dungeon mankind needs to escape.
There is no need for the theist to prove anything. They are in charge of this lousy world. They have to tolerate the insanity of dangerous religions because they are all in the "faith" business.
strange video.
.
don't know if i'm late to this thing, but it is just has me totally confused!
So many here are so jaded that they can't appreciate this little claymation.
This board should applaud this kind of effort. It is such talent that eventually leaves for fuller expression.
i'll miss some of you.
i curse others.
it's been an interesting 3 years.
Hey! Start resurrecting all the good-bye threads next time someone makes the Grand Exit
I've had a few of those departing moments myself. I figure if you announce your leave you will probably be back.
If you say nothing and just quit posting you have a better chance of being gone for good.
thats a big test.
can you think of the test that that would put on gods people?
its a big test, its a big test.
The presumption is that "this is God's organization - no matter what".
My problem is that we are supposed to look to God for a higher guidance. But all you see is the usual trial and error groping for ideas and explanations.
If God can put things in the minds of the "ten kings" to give their authority to the wild beast why can't he insert the "right" thoughts into the brains of the JW leaders - the Holy Governing Body.
The best argument against the idea of ESP is that NONE of these people are right ALL of the time. You have to use the same statistical methods you use to investigate all of the soft sciences. The fact that JW's survive just says they did enough of the right things and they were exploiting a niche that was especially hot during the immediate post WWII period.
The JW organization doesn't even show evidence of ordinary creativity. Russell was very creative. Even Rutheford had a sense of public relations and knew how to create buzz. But the organization got swallowed up in production issues - hours, magazines, books, new branches. The elder arrangement was a belated attempt at participative management. They have resorted to Multilevel marketing type of motivation - if you show you are productive you get special recognition through invitations to seminars etc.
The same thing is seen in the trial and error/success process that is called "natural" selection. All sorts of vestigial organs, left over spare parts that are crudely adapted to whatever situation was advantageous for a period of time.
The organization of JW's (actually all organizations) is proof of evolution.
They always reply "well it's an organization of imperfect men". BUT - isn't God able to guide these imperfect men so they don't keep walking into their own poop?
i believe in god ... but not because of any watchtower teaching.
it is actually fun to look back and see how they applied very poor logic and nonsense to try and prove their point.
today, the (c) 1998 watchtower book, "is there a creator who cares about you" was placed with me at the door.
Fatfreek:
I have a lot of respect for Amazing (Jim). I don't believe in an omnipotent, omiscient (and all the other omnis) God. But, I AM interested in how smart people arrive at "faith".
I can also understand his Catholicism. JW's have changed as they have gotten bigger. What would JW's be like if they had a billion members and 2,000 years of history? Probably quite a bit like the Catholic Church. Of course that will never happen.
I can also understand why Amazing (Jim) might think his faith is too personal.
since leaving the jw's most of us have also left most of their doctrine.
so that being the case, most of us have left the wt understanding of 1914. now you know that the wt claims that satan was hurled out of heaven in that year down to the vicinity of the earth.
so the question is: if 1914 is just another year to us, then what are your thoughts as to the whereabouts of satan and his followers?.
Satan is the fourth person of the "quaternity". Carl Jung
i believe in god ... but not because of any watchtower teaching.
it is actually fun to look back and see how they applied very poor logic and nonsense to try and prove their point.
today, the (c) 1998 watchtower book, "is there a creator who cares about you" was placed with me at the door.
So Amazing (Jim):
I don't want this to go into a long discussion about God's existence but I am curious what you consider to be the most persuasive evidence for an intelligent creator. I will offer no rebuttal.
what has life taught you?
any subject or any issue that you want to share to help someone else!!.
you cant change people no matter how hard you try.. money is important as we need it but happiness means more than money.
I can only read a few more books before I die. They better be interesting.
