Posts by leaving

22

Get out of her My People.. Jeremiah 51:45 / Revelation 18:4

by objectivetruth in

for any christians, i'd like to get your opinion.. i believe that all organized religions are a part of babylon the great.

this includes the jw organization, in my opinion.. what do you feel is required to "get out of her"?would disasociation / disfellowshipment be appropriate?if one chose not to dissasociate himself, would it be wrong to still attend meetings with the hope of turning some to the bible?when jesus speaks of the scribes & pharisees do you feel that these could be compared to the elders or the gb?if the scribes and pharisees are among the religions of babylon the great, what would be the signifigance of jesus words at matther 23:2,3?

" "2the scribes and the pharisees sit on moses seat, 3so practice and observe whatever they tell youbut not what they do.

leaving_quietly

@objectivetruth, if I'm reading between the lines correctly, your question could be viewed as you being at a crossroads. If that is true, I'm right there with you. I am still an active JW. Still going to meetings. Still participating in the field ministry. And the only reason I do it is because of family. If I were to boil it down the main things as to why I personally feel JWs are not the true religion, it would be these:

1. They say Jesus is only a mediator between God and the 144,000. That makes him not a mediator between me and God, and thus I could never come to the Father through him.

2. They say only the 144,000 are part of the New Covenant. This is similar to point #1. I completely disagree with this, and I have scriptural reasons for doing so.

3. Jesus said at Luke 21:8, "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them." The words, "the due time has approached," is almost word-for-word what JWs have said. Notice this quote:

"Another way we can "sleep on" is by ignoring the fact that Jehovah's time to destroy the ungodly has approached." - w12 3/15 p. 11 par. 4

It's too eerily similar. It's easy to detect when someone claims to be Christ. It's quite another when someone is saying, 'the due time has approached' in a variety of forms, as JWs have been doing for over 100 years. The Society rarely comments on this portion of Luke 21:8, which is why, until the past year or two, this was unknown to me.

I cannot ignore these things. Yet, I am stuck in at the moment, at a big crossroads. Am I prepared to possibly, and in all probability, lose my family? I am reminded of the words of the Christ:

He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.  And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. - Matt 10:37,38

Not that I'm telling you or even advising you what to do. I cannot do that. I am simply pointing out where I am and what I am personally thinking about all of this. This is my crossroads, too.

22

Get out of her My People.. Jeremiah 51:45 / Revelation 18:4

by objectivetruth in

for any christians, i'd like to get your opinion.. i believe that all organized religions are a part of babylon the great.

this includes the jw organization, in my opinion.. what do you feel is required to "get out of her"?would disasociation / disfellowshipment be appropriate?if one chose not to dissasociate himself, would it be wrong to still attend meetings with the hope of turning some to the bible?when jesus speaks of the scribes & pharisees do you feel that these could be compared to the elders or the gb?if the scribes and pharisees are among the religions of babylon the great, what would be the signifigance of jesus words at matther 23:2,3?

" "2the scribes and the pharisees sit on moses seat, 3so practice and observe whatever they tell youbut not what they do.

leaving_quietly

These are my opinions only.

What do you feel is Required to "Get Out of Her"?

Have nothing to do with, disavow, disown.

Would Disasociation / Disfellowshipment be Appropriate?

I think so. If I were to disassociate myself, it would be ME taking the action of GETTING OUT. If I were disfellowshipped, it would be THEM scourging / beating / punishing in their synagogues' (Matt 10:17; Matt 23:34; Mark 13:9; Luke 21:12; Acts 21:11) Either way, it would be appropriate as this may be one's "torture stake".

If one Chose not to Dissasociate himself, would it be Wrong to still Attend Meetings with the hope of Turning some to the Bible?

I would say no, not necessarily. Jesus taught in the synagogues, if you recall. However, your goal should be to turn someone to Christ, not the Bible, per se.

YOU are searching the Scriptures, because YOU think that by means of them YOU will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. And yet YOU do not want to come to me that YOU may have life. - John 5:39,40

When Jesus Speaks of the Scribes & Pharisees do you feel that these could be Compared to the Elders or the GB?

Yes to both. Mostly the GB because directives come from the GB and the Elders are obligated to follow those directives. There are some rogue elders who add more rules to the mix.

They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger. - Matt 23:4

Think of the 'do more, do more, do more' mantra, the "will you sacrifice" mantra and the like. What did the Christ say? "Go, then, and learn what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice'" - Matt 9:13

YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” - Matt 15:7-9

True, they pay lip service to the Christ, but their heart is not with him. They constantly do an end-run around him and go straight to the Father. Yet, the Christ said:

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. - John 14:6

and

I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage. - John 10:9

As far as commands of men as doctrines, just think of these: you must attend all the weekly meetings, you must have family worship night, you must build a relationship with Jehovah, men must not wear a beard, and so on

If the Scribes and Pharisees are among the Religions of Babylon the Great, what would be the Signifigance of Jesus Words at Matther 23:2,3?" " 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. "

This is a GREAT question. Remember, at the time, the Mosaic Law was in effect. Christ observed that Law. He also pointed out their failure to do so properly. Just a little further in Matt 23, we see these words:

Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but YOU have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was binding to do, yet not to disregard the other things. Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel! - Matt 23:23,24

Christ was saying, do the things the Pharisees said, which they did say in harmony with the Law. However, don't practice the things that they do, specifically, overlooking these weightier matters.

As far as sitting on Moses' seat, the scribes and Pharisees were placing themselves as judges over the people. That's what the seat of Moses was for. (Ex 18:13). However, this was contrary to what Christ taught at Matt 7:1, 2:

Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU.

Who is the rightfully appointed judge?

For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. - John 5:22, 23

This is my perspective on this. Just opinion. Hope it helps a bit.

~LQ

22

Get out of her My People.. Jeremiah 51:45 / Revelation 18:4

by objectivetruth in

for any christians, i'd like to get your opinion.. i believe that all organized religions are a part of babylon the great.

this includes the jw organization, in my opinion.. what do you feel is required to "get out of her"?would disasociation / disfellowshipment be appropriate?if one chose not to dissasociate himself, would it be wrong to still attend meetings with the hope of turning some to the bible?when jesus speaks of the scribes & pharisees do you feel that these could be compared to the elders or the gb?if the scribes and pharisees are among the religions of babylon the great, what would be the signifigance of jesus words at matther 23:2,3?

" "2the scribes and the pharisees sit on moses seat, 3so practice and observe whatever they tell youbut not what they do.

leaving_quietly

marked for later... can't respond just now.

9

untitled

by Brainfloss in

matthew 28:18-20 states.

...18and jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.

19"go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that i commanded you; and lo, i am with you always, even to the end of the age.. what are all of the things jesus commanded?.

leaving_quietly

Found this some time ago. It's not a complete list, though.

http://www.trusting-in-jesus.com/Commandments-of-Jesus.html

26

Elder and i discussed beards, and got into rules and regulations

by Jon Preston in

jw
friends

during a study the elder brought out that eating blood and omens are from the devil, and brought me to leviticus 19:26 (i think).. in verse 27 i says this:.

you must not shave the hair on the side of your head or disfigure the edges of your beard.. i said: "so why are we not allowed to have beards?".

elder: "thats a good question, cleric.

leaving_quietly

Point out that we are to be in imitation of Christ and in nearly every picture (probably every one, but I can't say that for sure) Christ has a beard.

Beards are the modern-day, anti-typical circumcision issue.

10

DOES THE BIBLE TEACH BLIND OBEDIENCE???

by DATA-DOG in

i would like your opinions on a subject raised on another thread.

here are some statements that i made regarding "blind obedience.".

1) dd: " how would counter what paul wrote about being obedient to those taking the lead?

leaving_quietly

One thing to learn (hopefully sauloftarsus is reading) is that cherry-picking scriptures is something WTS does phenomenally well. However, when read in context, things are very different. Take, for example James 2:14-17. I'm not sure what the point was of including that in the list as it has nothing to do with blind obedience or blind faith. However, in WTS land, "works" are preaching, meetings, study, etc. However, James said nothing of those things in any of the five chapters. In fact, just preceding these verses, he talked about Rahab's works. What evidence did Rahab have? She heard about God's saving acts.

"For we have heard how Jehovah dried up the waters of the Red Sea from before YOU when YOU came out of Egypt, and what YOU did to the two kings of the Am′or·ites who were on the other side of the Jordan, namely, Si′hon and Og, whom YOU devoted to destruction. When we got to hear it, then our hearts began to melt, and no spirit has arisen yet in anybody because of YOU, for Jehovah YOUR God is God in the heavens above and on the earth beneath." (Josh 2:10,11)

Rahab did NOT exhibit blind faith. The evidence preceded the two who came in. In the first century, evidence was there, as Data-Dog stated. Miracles were being performed. Holy spirit was being poured out and other people were aware of it / saw it somehow. As Hebrews 11:1 defines faith: "the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

I would also say that "blind obedience" and "blind faith" are two different things. I'm pretty certain there's no scripture that admonishes us to put faith in any man or organization. Faith in God, yes. Faith in Christ, yes. Faith in the good news, yes. Even faith that follows the things heard. "In turn, the thing heard is through the word about Christ."

Obedience, however, is different. Even the Christ cautioned against blind obedience.

"Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform. They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger." (Matt 23:1-4)

If an anyone professing to be appointed by holy spirit, thus coming under the direct chain of command of the Christ, does not do what Christ says, then why would we obey them? The elders in JW congregations are under obligation to do whatever the GB commands, regardless of whether it is scriptural or not. For example, the GB says unless there is an underlying medical condition, no one who wears a beard is permitted to serve in any congregation position. Elders MUST uphold that. Yet, there is no scripture stating such a thing. How one wears their facial hair is simply not addressed in the list of requirements of overseers or ministerial servants. This is a petty example, but it shows that even the elders in JW congregations, as good-hearted and good-intentioned as many of them are, themselves participate in blind obedience. The JW religion has become highly Pharisaical. Christ clearly condemned the scribes and Pharisees ESPECIALLY for their legalistic characteristics and lack of mercy and love. Yet the JW hierarchy has taken on those same characteristics.

I could go on, but I don't have the desire to stay on this topic.

3

The Liason commitee for Blood

by Crazyguy in

three plus years ago i had an experience that started to open my eyes to ttatt and it was about blood.

my wife was 9 months pregnant with my son and the baby was too big for us to have it at home with the assistance of a midwife.

at the hospital we met with the doctor and it was obvious that a c section was a possibility as well, again do to the size of the baby.

leaving_quietly

A lot of hospitals have hired JWs to manage their bloodless programs administratively, and in a hospital-to-patient role. These cannot be on the Liasion committee per se because of conflicts of interest. Many of these are women. I've met a few in my time. They are employed by the hospital. They do, though, work closely with Liasion committees, so it's easy to assume they are part of the Liasion committee. As flamegrilled said, committee members are all men and I would add, are all elders.

19

Don't Question GOD! (aka the governing body)

by sunny23 in

did a simple search in the wt library for words like, "question," "questioning," "doubts/ing,"obey," "understand.".

these are listed in order of occurence oldest to newest (up to 2012 as my library is 2012 version).

"if we have love for jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the bible says, 'believe all things,' all the things that the watchtower brings out"qualified to be ministers (1955) p.156.

leaving_quietly

marked

Thanks for the research!

24

Meeting others????

by DATA-DOG in

jw
friends

are you like me, afraid of meeting up with faders and ex-jws??

i am afraid to be ratted out.

the only person that i have ever personally spoke to is raypublisher, well on the phone ans skype.

leaving_quietly

DD, I would enjoy meeting you, I think. But, alas, I am on the west coast. Our paths may never cross except for here.

3

Interesting quote!

by StephaneLaliberte in

*** w00 5/1 p. 17 par.

17 hear what the spirit has to say ***.

as we establish a pattern of listeningto the word behind usas it is provided through the scriptures and the faithful and discreet slaveand as we heed the reminders of our bible-trained conscience, jehovah will bless us with his spirit.

leaving_quietly

Ugh. And not once did the article say what the spirit REALLY says, as quoted at Rev 22:17: "And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free."

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly