Posts by rem

19

What happens when a dub faces the truth...

by biblexaminer in

jw
friends

i wanted to pass along this personal experience.. the other day, my wife called me on the phone while i was at work.

keep in mind that she's unfortunately a blind jwfollowwhatevertheysay type.

she was all worked up.

rem

Unclepenn,

Uh, no. Perhaps you misunderstood the web page. The author of the link you supplied was linking Evolutionary theory with Abiogenesis and the Big Bang. He explicitly spelled it out more than once on that very page. He shows a gross misunderstanding of Evolutionary theory, as do most other people who oppose it. How can anyone take him seriously when he doesn't even understand what he is trying to refute?

Unclepenn, you would do well to follow the counsel at Probers 18:17. Look at both sides of an issue before coming to a conclusion. That's what I had to do (I used to believe in creation too until I did the research). Now how many books written by respected Evolutionary scientists have you read?

Here are some good ones for you to get started on:

The Blind Watchmaker, The Selfish Gene, and Climbing Mount Improbable - Richard Dawkins
Darwin's Ghost - Steve Jones
Why People Believe Weird Things - Michael Shermer

There is also a lot of good information at http://www.talkorigins.org/

rem

"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain

19

What happens when a dub faces the truth...

by biblexaminer in

jw
friends

i wanted to pass along this personal experience.. the other day, my wife called me on the phone while i was at work.

keep in mind that she's unfortunately a blind jwfollowwhatevertheysay type.

she was all worked up.

rem

Unclepenn,

The anti-evolution link you provided is a complete joke. Here is a snippet:

* NOTE:
When I use the word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations found in all of the various life forms (microevolution). I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God:
Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves.
Planets and stars formed from space dust.
Matter created life by itself.
Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves.
Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals).

What the hell? It sounds like this guy doesn't even know what Evolution is, so how could he even know if it was proven or not? Since when does the Theory of Evolution have anything to do with space, matter, time, planets, and stars forming?

Every person I've ever talked to who does not agree with Evolutionary theory simply does not seem to know what they do not agree with. Misconceptions about Evolution are rampant among fundamental Christians.

rem

"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain

45

Does anyone get scared?

by aud8 in

does anyone who has left the organisation ever get scared at current world events and what they seem to be leading to?

more and more the governments are getting fed up with religion, there is now more than even a call "for" peace rather than "of" peace and security.

bin laden and his extremist religious views would give rise to the thought that governments will in the future be intent on eradicating religion altogether due to the trouble it causes.

rem

Joel,

My thoughts are very similar. When discussing current events with my brother he suggested that things were going downhill. My thoughts were that the way things were for at least our lifetimes was not really normal, but surprisingly peaceful. To me it seems that the events are not really any worse than anything before (human history in general), but just a correction to how things usually are for the human race and life in general - a struggle. Maybe someday peaceful times will come again. It seems to me that peace is the exception and not the rule in human history, and even in the history of all living things.

We have started on a new period of struggle which especially for those of my generation is a change. Change produces uncertainty and with it fear.

...and with fear comes suff....er...ing... (I thought that last part of your post sounded like Yoda. :)

rem

"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain

23

Having Children Inside vs Outside The Organizatio

by Ranchette in

jw
friends

i feel cheated because i wouldnt know what its like to experience pregnancy and the birth of my children the way it was meant to be.. a completely natural and joyous event in human life was sabotaged by this religion!.

im sure there are others who know what i mean.. i would be interested to hear stories of others who have had children both inside and out of this organization.. i would like to explain what i mean.. i was raised as a witness and was always expected to be an example.

from as far back as i can remember we were taught that armageddon was just around the corner.

rem

Wow! That is truly disgusting!

Unbelievable.

rem

"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain

88

If evolution is true ?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.

.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

rem

The book is not closed and the jury is still out as to the existance of Invisible Pink Unicorns. (or insert any deity or other fictional being)

Is there really any good reason to believe in the existance of something for which there is no evidence?

"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?" - Richard Dawkins

rem

"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain

88

If evolution is true ?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.

.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

rem

D Wiltshire shows off his/her ignorance of science even further.

Hint: The word theory means something different in science than it does in common usage.

rem

"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain

34

J.W's gonna see Harry P ?

by wheelwithinwheel in

jw
friends

harry potter is getting great reviews.

looks pretty satanic!

how many witnesses are gonna go see the movie?

rem

My sisters-in-law's parents said they don't want the girls seeing the Harry Potter movie because it is spiritistic (how superstitious are these people?). So the girls are gonna come up to our place in a couple weeks and see it up here. hehe

rem

'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell

34

Please Help: Disfellowshipping--Scriptural View

by GinnyTosken in

jw
friends

i'm hoping you all can help.. an active jehovah's witness joined us in chat tonight and was dismayed that this site slams witnesses for trying to follow the bible in matters such as disfellowshipping.

this chatter feels that many people here complain about the society's policies without offering evidence that the policies are without scriptural backing.. i must be at work very early monday morning, so i could not stay in chat as long as i wished.

i told the chatter i would start this thread so that s/he could gather information and opinions from several sources.. in chat i was trying to present a point that i remembered from in search of christian freedom, about how disfellowshipping was meant to be a personal choice, not a decision forced on the congregation by a small committee.

rem

To add to Venice's comment (sounds like we are in a meeting!) I would also say that in the scripture referenced at Matt 18:15-17, the word 'you' was not used in the plural tense. In the koine Greek there were two separate words for 'you'. One singular and one plural. In the NWT, the plural form is rendered in all caps (YOU).

In verse 17 (NWT) it says:

If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.

So we see that Jesus was referring to the offended one when he said 'you', not the entire congregation (otherwise he would have said YOU). It's easy to miss in english since we use the word 'you' in both the singular and plural forms.

Therefore, strictly from Jesus' words, we don't see any reference to congregational shunning for offences (even assuming treating one as a tax collector would mean shunning). It was an individual choice and not an official punishment that the entire congregation enforced.

rem

'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell

88

If evolution is true ?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.

.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

rem

Julie,

You know I've heard so much about that book/series but I've never read it. I hear it's great. That's it - it's now going on my Amazon.com Wish List! :)

Not sure if there is any relation, though.

Thanks!

rem

'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell

88

If evolution is true ?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.

.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

rem

D,

I suppose to an ignorant person hundreds of years ago a person asserting that the earth was a sphere would sound like he was just making an assumption, and yet there were those who could confidently back and provide evidence for such a claim. Back then it would have sounded dogmatic to say the earth was a sphere. Well, then I suppose it's okay to be dogmatic sometimes when you are right and you have the evidence on your side. It's just as dogmatic to assert the earth is a sphere today, and yet we have no qualms about it.

What are assumptions to you is merely lack of knowledge on your part. If you would educate yourself on the theories you are talking about, you would see the evidence and the reasoning behind the "assumptions" as you call them. You will find, with education, that scientists rarely do ever dogmatically assert what is uncertain. Yet they are not afraid to talk confidently about theories which have been tested over and over again to the point that they are common knowledge.

Remember that if there is one thing that the scientific method has taught us, it's that our intuition is usually wrong when it comes to areas in which we have little exposure. So just because something might sound crazy to you, doesn't mean that it's automatically wrong. It just means that your brain is not used to thinking about how things really are because you are used to thinking "intuitively".

I agree that the questions you are asking are extremely basic and can be answered by you doing a little bit of homework. It's not fair to expect people on this board to spoon-feed you the information. We've pointed out an area where you are ignorant of the latest scientific findings, now it's up to you to fill that knowledge gap. That's what we had to do! You have no business finding "flaws" in scientific theories that you know nothing about. How would you like me to tell you that you run your business wrong when I don't know the first thing about what you do? It's ludicrous.

rem

P.S. Some books that helped me are:
Five Ages of the Universe, Fred Adams and Greg Laughlin
Six Easy Pieces and Six Not So Easy Pieces, Richard Feynman

'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell