ros

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Posts by ros

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  18

  Deleted's Top Five Poll #2 - What books helped you get out of the Borg?

  by Deleted in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's my top five books that helped me considerably to see my way out.

  (1) edward rutherfurd's novel "london" - it dawned on me that generation after generation thought theirs was special in god's eyes, this novel started me thinking.

  (2) crisis of conscience - by you know who, wow!

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  ros

  Babylon The Great Has Fallen (1963) was the first I consciously realized I disagreed with the Watchtower on a doctrine. That was the beginning of my "waiting on Jehovah for new light," which was the beginning . . .

  ~Ros
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  50

  Tired? When will you stop talking about Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by Joker10 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anybody would agree that talking about jehovah's witnesses over and over, and then over some more can get anybody tired and sick.

  except, of course, those who are obsessed over them.

  don't you think there will be a point when you won't talk or even mumble about jehovah's witnesses?

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  ros

  And what would you expect to discuss on a board titled "Jehovahs Witness Discussion Forum"?
  Just curious.

  ~Ros
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  16

  The WT and Freedom to choose Evil

  by jst2laws in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt and freedom to choose evil

  augustine taught that evil did not really exits, only love, and that evil is the lack of love.

  but the wt society does not agree.

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  ros

  Jst2laws:

  I should acknowledge one flaw in my comment: Fundamentalists don't attribute anything to evolution. :-)
  (My apologies to fundamentalists for that inferrence.)
  Their reasoning is that a "loving God" not only does not create evil, but has made a burning lake to torture anyone for eternity who says otherwise.

  Comparing good and evil to light and dark is a pretty good one I think. Creation of light would not mean that darkness was created, but the alternative exists by default, and it does create an option (choice).

  ~Ros
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  16

  The WT and Freedom to choose Evil

  by jst2laws in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt and freedom to choose evil

  augustine taught that evil did not really exits, only love, and that evil is the lack of love.

  but the wt society does not agree.

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  ros

  Very good points, ezekiel3.

  In my opinion, it is impossible to create good if there is no possibility of bad (relativity). How could one have an opinion about "good music" if there was no such thing as "bad music" in that one's view?

  Without bad, there would be no such thing as good, and vice-versa. With out bad, it would be impossible to know good. "They have become like one of us, knowing good and evil."--Gen3:22) Evidently it required experiencing bad to realize good.

  Caveat: I do not take the Genesis metaphoric story literally. However I believe it conveys an important message. In this case, that we must know/experience evil to know and realize, appreciate, and enjoy good to the fullest.
  (I fully realize the issues skeptics and fundamentalists raise that suggests that a *loving God* could in any way have anything whatsoever to do with allowing evil to exist. It is much easier to reckon that loveless evolution and bigoted natural selection (survival of the superior) did it. :-)))

  ~Ros
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  14

  BRCI Questions

  by stephoness in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was reading through the website and i have a question... do they do any preaching or try to get people to join another religion?

  i am considering possibly showing up to the convention but i won't go if they talk about god or jesus and make it into a big christian thing.

  i'd love to go if it's more about meeting other xjws and sharing experiences but i do not like being preached at (for obvious reasons).

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  ros

  Hello, Stephoness:

  The BRCI program itself is pretty heavy on a Christian format through not necessarily evangelical. Religiously, not everyone who attends is on the same track. Some people come mainly to meet other exJWs and they kind of do their own thing. There is no pressure to join another religion or to change your perspective.

  ~Ros
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  80

  A Review By Carl Jonsson Of Rolf Furuli'sBook On Chronology.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this may already have been posted, but if not i am sure that carl jonsson will forgive my linking his review of furuli's book from another site,.

  http://user.tninet.se/~oof408u/fkf/english/furulirev.htm .

  best regards - hs.

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  ros

  "Scholar":

  I posed a question to you on another board, which you ignored. I'll pose it again.

  You tout educational credentials with great confidence. My question to you was about one of Furuli's own countrymen who is a former JW and has somewhat the same educational credentials that you claim.

  How do you regard the religious perspective of former poster on this site known as JH (or JanH), a Norwegian (as is Furuli) who has a masters in degree in religious studies.

  Just curious.

  ~Ros
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  69

  Newbies to screwbies, At what stag of recovery are you?

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  at what stage of recovery are you?

  are you angry?

  are you depressed?

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  ros

  Thank you, Uzzah, bem, and onocruze:

  Uzzah, thank you for your kind words. Would I know you by another handle from H2O? :-)

  bem: The thing to realize is that your life IS BETTER for recognizing "the Lie" that parades itself as "The Truth". You are to be commended for the courage to do that, and the reward will come in the liberation of your conscience. The WT shunning policy is their greatest weapon and, imo, their greatest sin. But remember Jesus words in Matt.12: " 48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
  While I realize this is not a viable substitute for blood family and life-long friends to many, as you have already discovered it is better than living "The Lie(tm)" There is a rich and fruitful life in honesty--you just have to follow the path. In my experience, you can find wonderful friends among the people who have left the WT, who can relate to your experience. Hang in there, it gets better as you go if you "accentuate the positive", as the song goes. Look ahead, not back.
  Ironically, my family experience was somewhat the reverse: I was shunned, to some extent, for becoming a JW. :-) But I was willing to deal with that for what I believed. For that realization, I'm not sorry. Although it was misguided at the time, I can now realize that I was willing to place my conscience at a higher value than approval of family. I take pride in that. So can you now. We're just on different sides of the same coin. (My mother still somewhat holds it against me that I got my brother involved in JWs. He died from complications with diabetes, mainly because he did not take the proper care of his condition since Armageddon was always just around the corner in the next few months.)

  onocruze: Thanks for your warm thoughts. The more I see, the more I wonder if the *real* healing for some may still be in the wake, (that is, in *waking* up from the myths of the other extreme)--in time.

  Blessings,
  ~Ros
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  51

  I been shunned by a Baptist,

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just moments ago i was on the back deck looking at the stars and a renter next door came out to do the same.

  i said hello and we talked about where we were from and where we are at, spiritually.

  after a few clues the neighbor asked if i had accepted jesus as my personal savior.

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  ros

  Hey, Jst2Laws:

  I rest my case. ;-)))

  Blessings,
  ~Ros
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  11

  Today is my parents 60th anniversary!!

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today is my parent's 60th anniversary!

  i am so happy and proud for them.

  it takes a lot to make it that long, especially when you have to raise wild kids like me and my sister were.

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  ros

  Hi, Randy:

  I am always warmed about a marriage that seems to be what it should be.

  CONGRATULATIONS for your parents and your family. You are right to be proud.

  Blessings,
  ~Ros
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  69

  Newbies to screwbies, At what stag of recovery are you?

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  at what stage of recovery are you?

  are you angry?

  are you depressed?

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  ros

  Jst2Laws:
  What a great thread!

  Like you, I was a convert--not born-in-it. In many respects I think it is a different experience for converts.

  At age 18, after "back-sliding" from "the Truth" in the mainstream fundamentalist "born-again" denominations (Church of Christ and Baptist genres), by going to movies (Walt Disney's Cinderella), wearing lipstick, and getting a part-time job as an usherette in a movie theatre, I believed with all sincerity that I was doomed to spend eternity being tortured in a burning hell. That is the belief of people who adhere to hell-fire doctrine denominations. So people just have to excuse me that I don't consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be the worst belief system in religion. :-)

  Believing that I was doomed, I never-the-less loved the Creator and goodness, and did not blame God for my failure to be "good." I wanted to work to save as many souls from going to eternal torture (Hell) as possible. I was looking for the one "true religion" to serve God and goodness, even though I was doomed for Hell (since there remained no more sacrifice for me--I had known the truth and returned to my wicked ways (Heb.10:26) for going to movies, working in a theater, and wearing makeup, etc.--age 17-18).

  When I heard that JWs did not believe in War and Christmas (I had concluded that Jesus and Santa Claus had nothing in common), I contacted them. I began a study with two other "pioneer" converts, and the first topic we covered was Hell. I studied that topic very deeply, with great interest, and to this day it amazes me how un-studied most JWs/exJWs are on that subject. That was THE subject I had to be convinced of before considering the religion's other doctrines. With studies daily, lasting hours each day, I was convinced this was IT within 3 weeks. I attended my first assembly--a district assembly with Knorr and FredFranz and Covington, etc. within a month, and was baptized at my first district assembly within 3 months. My mentor thought it was premature for me to be baptized because she said I did not fully comprehend the meaning that this was "Jehovah's organization". I now realize--though she did not realize it--that she meant I had not come under the mindset of accepting everything without question. I was not under the mind control. That early baptism may be what kept me from going under it.

  Early on, I began to notice with dismay that JWs did not "prove" everything that came out in the Watchtower. JWs who were raised in the religion did not "prove" anything--they just accepted. They believed with all faith at that time that the Watchtower never had wrong information. It was not to be questioned. I was amazed that many life-time JWs could not disprove the basic doctrines that had been disproved to me in my "studies". The first thing that bothered me was the "blind faith." After a couple years of enthusiasm, I drifted into "waiting for new light" and over the next 16 years a gradual withdrawl that finally ended when a certain situation that was certain to result in a sister being DF'd, and I woke up. No more waiting for "new light"--I finally had to admit to myself this religion was not "the Truth". It was not a welcome or easy admission. I had really wanted it to be "the Truth". I had a log of egg on my face for people I had "witnessed to" and practically condemned.

  I'm one who is glad I was a JW, glad I had that experience. Otherwise I would have believed it could not happen to me. Yes, intelligent people can believe incredible things. I once did a seminar at a BRCI conference, with a group of embittered exJWs, in which I posed questions in three categories: 1) Sorry I was a JW; 2) Not sorry I was a JW; and 3) Glad I was a JW.
  The questions in "Sorry I was a JW" had things like missed education, missed popular activities in school, could have had a better job, etc. The questions in "Not sorry" were along the line of: I might have gotten an education but didn't know at that age what I wanted to be; most people don't do the things they can look back on and see they should have done; we probably would not have made the right decisions or any better decisions, etc. The last category "Glad I was a JW" had questions like, I would not have met my mate, or had my children; I might have gone to war and killed people--or had children or loved ones who did. Or got wounded/crippled. I might have gotten mixed up in drugs or immorality, etc.
  The bottom-line question being, do people who were never JWs really, on average, live that much better of a life? Don't we all--JWs, exJWs, never-been-JWs--tend to look back and wish we had made different decisions. Would our decisions have really been the better life we now imagine we would have led if we had not been a JW. To my great surprise, and those who were in the workshop, the winning category turned out to be "Glad I was a JW" (and left, of course).

  Some problems I see with people coming out of a long life of JWism is that they become convinced they missed a lot. Most that I see tend to embrace some other ideology (religious, anti-religious, social, amoral, or political). They nurture a concept that they would have had a wonderful life if they had not been a JW (in spite of the fact that most non-JWs do not have an extraordinary wonderful life). Sure we MIGHT have pursued some better education and career opportunties, but don't forget the bad stuff that we stayed away from too. Which is better? Who can say.

  In my opinion, I think the luckiest people are people who were JWs, left JWs, and make the best of the rest of their life for what they learned from the experience. Some get better educations after leaving than they would have if they had never been JWs. We have the opportunity to have insight that only people who have succumbed to a mind-control ideology can understand.

  Besides, my best friends in this world are exJWs. And the only way to be an exJW is to first be a JW. :-)

  Blessings,
  ~Ros