for the sake of less argument whether you're a believer or non-believer lets just for the moment say we can.
take the bible as it is in current form at face value.. i'm just going to cite a few examples of bible stories of god appearing and if we had been alive back then it.
shoulda been proof to all of his existence.. 1) leading the israelites out of egypt as a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire at night.. 2) the waters of the sea miracously parting and allowing the israelites to go thru on dry land.
stonewall,
The JWs response to this is that "we have the Bible and therefore we don't need miracles"
Jesus had the scrolls as well, but he still needed angelic help when he went into the wilderness.
This is a problem that my wife and I had , and still have, why was God so active back there, but not anymore.?
If Jesus took over the reins why doesn’t he carry on in the same mode.?
Good question Stonewall, but can’t reason why.
KT
i was asked what i thought when i saw all the bad things going on in the world and about how close we are to the end.
i replied "jeff, i simply do not believe that it's going to happen in my life time.
" he was momentarily stunned and said "well, when have things ever been this bad before?
Mary,
The scriptures say make a defence at all times.
You were able to do this using common sense and logic, whereas the so called leaders who should have, were not.
The reason being, they are programmed by the Wts, they are afraid of using common sense because it can often look like it’s jumping ahead of the society, they will always fail under these circumstances.
Great stuff Mary
KT
last year in my cong (well it's not really "my cong" as i'm just "in" for the sake of family) we had a new "partaker of the emblems".
it came as a shock because this man was only baptized in 2005.. his wife has been a dub from birth.. he was 63 when he got baptized, took "auxilliary" pioneer after 1 month...became a full-time pioneer after a year....became ms after 2years...made an elder 6 months later.....2008 he got "anointed"....we were all surprised at the amount of time he took to climb the jw corporate ladder....rumours are that he donated a car to our po when he (po) lost his job, and some other favours( this man is wealthy).... .
i'm looking forward to be "just an observer" at this year's memorial in my cong (i am thinking of partaking myself, but i sure would rather not,the "bread" is tasteless and the wine is of poor quality,...i don't wanna throw out at the ms serving the emblems)..... back to that man,...how long would it take him to become a gb member?.
The Scriptures about partaking UNWORTHILY are to do with partaking when you are practicing a sin.
Who decides whether we are worthy or not ? if it is ourselves, that would be like marking our own homework,
According to the scriptures death cancels out sin, which implies we are all sinners!
KT
wow.
and so the wt society tightens down the screwdriver a bit more !
one of my wife and my lurking jw friends sent us this article which has some very pointed words in it inciting all jehovah's witnesses to take an even harder line view of apostates in this recent april 15th wt.. on pg.
On pg. 6 , paragraph 15 it states , " Satan was the first creature to turn apostate. Modern-day apostates display characteristics similar to those of the Devil. Their mind may be poisoned by a critical attitude toward INDIVIDUALS in the congregation, Christian elders, or the Governing Body.
As an organization that uses and believes all the bible’s contents why do they NEVER talk of "David when he HUMILLIATED "King Saul" who was appointed by Jehovah when he stole his water jug, having bean in his tent at night.
He could have killed him, but worse still he taunted him from the top of the hill, in front of all Saul’s army
Remember Saul was a fighting man, as well as being appointed by God.
How did David get away with it, yet the r/f get reproved if they say the slightest thing against the elders.
KT
i have two df'd friends...one gay....and they are both going back to meetings to be reinstated.
one has a serious drinking problem and he feels the jw life with friends and family again will help him with the drinking (i would drink even more!
)....he has some doubts, but believes a lot of it.. the gay friend you would think is full of holy spirit!....i thought from prior discussions she thought it was all bs....but nope, he has just always felt he was an evil sinner and wants a better relationship with god and to be with family....proven it to their self that it is full of lies?
A return, is to believe that they truly are blessed by God, NEVER.
They would therefore dismiss all the evidence that has bean published to the contrary.
2 Peter 2 v 22, the dog returns to it’s own vomit.
KT
i keep reading about new light or some big change in 1995. i left in 92, so what is everyone referring to?.
ra.
RaraAvis and Scarred for Life
The easiest way is to go to the search button at the top of the page and type 1995 in the search box. You will get a selection of topics on this very subject.
KT
i keep reading about new light or some big change in 1995. i left in 92, so what is everyone referring to?.
ra.
Try the link above, it was discussed on this forum about 4 years ago.
KT
telling a witness "hey, all the stuff you teach is bs" may be correct, but does that approach work?
i have been reading on here how several have tried that direct method with their family or friends.
it didnt work for me, and now i am having more and more success by repeating that i support the organization and the faithful slave, then i bring up "an interesting point".
You would think that there should be a logical way of discussing these things, but there surely is not, if there were thousands would leave.
Even when you present them with hard evidence they still seam to have a closed mind.
Even when scripture is used ( Isaiah 1 v18 come now you people and let us put matters straight between us says Jehovah ) even then, there is no guarantee that this approach will work.
In the end it has to come from the person himself or herself.
KT
a few years ago i held out hope, that if i was patient and waited on jehovah, he would correct things in his due time.. there was still a part of me that wanted to believe it was the truth - it was still part of my comfort zone, after all i was raised in the truth from infancy.. i took heart that people wanted to reform the organization rather than plot or wish its downfall.. websites such as http://www.jwreform.org/ and heart felt open letters written by those who wanted something better gave me hope that if enough people got together, real change might actually happen.. as time passes, and new discoveries are made concerning the untruths that the watchtower society has sold and promoted to us, it become evident that there is no possibility of reform - real reform, from a totalitarian spiritual government to a first century model of christianity.. tomorrow, activists from around the world will march in london at the g20 summit.
the word is that the g20 group of finance ministers will not bring anything new to the forum, but will simpy discuss ways of trying to prop up the old financial order.. and so it is with the watchtower organization - there have been protests, letters written to the governing body, marches on bethel, tv documentaries on the jw child abuse problem, but what has really changed for the better?.
the society is reactionary - it prefers the old system of doing things because it works for them.
The U.N. did it for the wife and me, Ray’s two books sealed it for my wife.
All the other revelations, (Paedophiles, Blood U-turn, failed prophecies, etc.) all seamed to come together at the same time.
By then we had already spent 30years with the B#########
KT
or did he win his "appeal jc"?.....
if he was never df'd, why can't jw's follow this biblical example of forgiveness...... .
african gb member.
As well as adultery, what about premeditated murder, the org used to say, he was not stoned because he was repentant.
I am sure there was many others who were just as sorry, but there is no record of them being forgiven.
If a law exists!, it should apply to all, that was another problem area hard to understand.
KT
