i got this message from jim moon:.
talk show host meria heller (herself an ex-jw) has put out the following reminder of her upcoming radio program.
you can tune in on the internet at http://www.meria.net/.
Skally,
I got the same error message. But I think it's because the link is not up yet. The program does not air until 1:00 PM Eastern Time. Thre pointer is in place and should go live at that time. Not sure, but this seems to be what is happening.
Anyone else more familiar with internet broadcasting who can shed light on this?
Sean
over the weekend, various publishers/congregations were.
instructed to go out in service for a "special work".. some congregations received letters from circuit overseers.
emphasizing immediate use of old awake magazines with articles.
I have vasilated from pitty to anger to outrite disgust while reading this thread. I would like to come accross as balanced and objective but it is hard for me to hold back from showing my disgust at the weak constitution of so many of you so-called "witnesses". Have you just shown up? Are there any of you who really know what you are talking about? Stand back and look at your "organization" and then tell me you are really comfortable being an apologist for them. I think what you are doing is salving your conscience. You are afraid to act on it! Why not speak to your leaders honestly about the "troubles" you are having? Because you know damn well you'll get the "axe" and be labelled at least a trouble-maker and probably DF'd as an apostate. You guys make me sick. Hiding behind your own opinions of what JW's are all about. You know good and well that the "Faithful & Discreet Slave" will not abide by you. They reject you and consider you to be a blight on their "clean" organization. They will not treat you with kindness and understanding.
Will you continue to close your eyes? Will you continue to run in fear? Will you really stand with those who have lost loved ones and are suffering the trauma imposed upon them by this tragedy? Do you really want to convert them to your religion so that they may get "life" or are you too afraid to listen to them and their point of view and accept that they are as right as anyone else?
The truth is the WTS DOES exploit people. Every day. Every hour. Closing your eyes to the facts will not change them. Get involved in exposing them before you speak in your own behalf. Act for justice! Stop appologizing for narrow minded exploitive organizations that won't even come to your aid when you ask them. That's pitiful!
So much for being objective. I'm angry at all of you who close your eyes to the horrors of others in order to protect your own reputation. To hell with your reputation. Stand up and be counted along with those who support justice in spite of the pain and suffering it causes us personally.
Sean
the october 1 watchtower 2001 features articles on training children "properly" and dealing with a "prodigal child.
the latest inside u.s. figures reveal that 86% of jw children leave the fold, with some 29% who eventually come back for reasons of family ties, most never "reaching out.
" that means over half leave permanently.
Way to go Jurs! That's what I'm talking about. I applaud all you do to educate people and help them with their own recovery from cult abuse just as much as those who are working on a national level. You are all powerful.
It's unfortunate that in congregations where there is a measure of love among the brothers and sisters that the young tend to grow up fairly well adjusted to the JW lifestyle. This is the case here. Most of the youth in my wife's generation have actually stayed with it. A few got DFd/Reinstated. Only a handful left for good. But I do see the difference from my own town in another part of the country. Most there did not stay in and all led double lives. I was perhaps the most serious of all the kids about "the truth" but even I could not resist leading a double life. I can't see any kids successfully living up to the WTS idea of what is "holy" for children. The emotional and mental damage this does is terrible. Guilt is what keeps unhappy kids in and makes them return. But, here where my wife grew up she actually thinks this is normal! This area was definitely not normal and it is just now beginning to morph into the typical JW community (Due to families moving in and out and being influenced by numerous "Bethelites"). Just a few months ago two of the "fine young brothers" were arrested for possessing a handgun. I never did find out what happened with that but it illustrates how kids are not content to play the "saintly" JW role.
Sean
bicker and complain all day?
why not try to show some love around here?
just wondering.... with love,
ROTFLMAO
That was funny Amazing!
A little bitching can be healthy. Don't take it all too seriously little bibleboy.
Sean
well my friend, after a second attempt to reach out to me and give me the decision last night i received an unexpected visit from two of the local elders.
apparently the two wts agents decided to pass the torch to the local elders this time.
this was organized by the co along with wts instructions.
Exodus,
I'm both sympathetic and glad for you. Sorry you had to go through that underhanded treatment. But, glad that you are free from that unholy mob.
All the best,
Sean
people are judgmental, this is a fact.. in fact it is a human quality that allows people to grow and become better throughout there lives.
we judge what happens and log it away for future use.
often times these things are so subconscious that an automatic trigger forms and we simply react to a new situation based upon something inside which tells us what is happening.. if we get burned by a hotplate, then forever we judge hotplates to be at least somewhat of a danger to our skin.
tj said
<Now, the question: You'd think that people older than, say, 18yrs of age, should have figured this all out. Too many give evidence of NOT having figured this out. Why is that?>
Well, I do not have a definitive answer but I will posit an opinion.
I think it's because it is the easier course in life to reject what is not understood than to accept your own ignorance. Parents pass this on to children and it self perpetuates. Only a few people break out and stop repeating the same mistakes passed on to them. But then it's up to their children to either accept or reject their parents view or not. Most end up adopting the "common" or popular attitudes, which are the "easier" attitudes to make their own. It's hard not to give in to careless judging. It takes concerted effort and deep love. It requires you to put yourself aside and accept what you are tempted to reject. The majority do not choose that path. Thus the propensity in the masses to be carelessly judgmental and stereotypical.
Sean
the october 1 watchtower 2001 features articles on training children "properly" and dealing with a "prodigal child.
the latest inside u.s. figures reveal that 86% of jw children leave the fold, with some 29% who eventually come back for reasons of family ties, most never "reaching out.
" that means over half leave permanently.
tj,
your comment about integrity seems weighted to the cynical side of life. My father would agree with you, seeing very little integrity in the human race in general. While I agree that those without integrity get most of the attention I cannot agree that this reveals a lack of integrity in general. Doesn't it have more to do with personality and opportunity than actual moral integrity? Many a horses ass has center stage because their personality lends to public viewing. They like the attention even if it is negative. Others, who are indeed good men reluctantly take the stage in order to find an outlet for their displeasure. Others, who may equally as good-hearted, may never come forward and instead retreat into the background. They may or may not act overtly depending on their personality.
Also to be considered is fear. It is hard for many good people to face their fears. They may object to the organization but are afraid to face consequences of revolt. I'm not ready to cast the brand of "gutless" and "lacking in integrity" on these people. I know what it's like when you have family in and you're afraid you will lose them if you speak out. You may be willing to risk it personally. But that does not in itself make you a man of integrity.
The dynamic here is tremendously complex and I would like to suggest that you try to view it from the perspectives of those who have more to lose than you do. In the overall scheme of things you are more able to help your own family and community by your actions locally or in private than you are on an organizational or national level. Does lack of a public agenda make these men of less integrity because you can't personally hear them speaking? Think please before you open your mouth to judge.
I otherwise agree with your sentiment. Certainly it is a good thing when people in high places stand up with integrity and act in behalf of others who are being abused by the system. The number of people who are in a position of power and also men of integrity may be limited. But any reform will not come from within the "club". It will be forced upon them by their constituants. So the real work is in the field among the R & F. And if you look closely you can see many fine deeds being done among the JW/xJW communities that may ultimately make a difference in spite of the "club".
Sean
are there any jw's posting here who believe that they are not of the anointed class?.
also, of the jw's who post here who do consider themselves as of the anointed class, do you feel that you have a special mission with regard to making ex-jw's aware of their standing with their creator?.
englishman.. ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.
It's little wonder that the J-dubs are confused. The WTS blurrs the distinction these days. Used to be the NT (Greek Scriptures) only applied to the the "Annointed" class. Now they regularly apply many of the texts directly to the "Other Sheep" class. I figure they are gearing up for a change in this confusing seperation of classes. They will need to able to hand the reihns over to the younger generation as the "Annointed" get up over 100 years old and as people start to notice that the number has remained static for years now (at around 8,000)
I went from the "Other Sheep" class to the "Confused" class, the "Vexed" class, then the "Pissed Off" class, now the "Who The Hell Cares" class. <g>
Sean
the organization cannot be reformed from outside; that can only come from individuals who have the guts and will to do so inside, and the determination to get rid of hardline thinking that is so strangling.
my personal desire is to see immediate change regarding the child abuse policy, and that will come.
to see a clear, quick change in the horribly inconsistent blood policy rather than drag it out over years; kids are dying in the process.enforced shunning is also an evil that they will have to deal with eventually; it's ripping them apart.. .
Deacon,
good questions. It shows you're thinking. (But why do you acknowledge that idiot YK?)
Most of us who were dedicated to the work of the WTS have thought about reform, usually early on in our journey away from the insanity. I too was eager to work for reform at first. Now, after a few years I would answer your questions with considerable pessimism. The truth is, the JW/IBSA never had anything to do with "truth" or Jehovah, or Christ. It is all a sham, a con. You, and I, have been fooled, hoodwinked, bamboozled, etc. You will have to make your own mind up about Jehovah/Jesus/God, etc. But a little more research will reveal to you that the WTS is not associated with any benevelent God or higher power. They may reform but it will not be toward a more "godly" organization. Hopefully, it will work out as Maximus hopes and there will be adjustments in policies that will make it easier for everyone to get along with their families. But being used by Jehovah? He's not involved. That may sting at first but it is reality. Just like the reality that you will die. It's not what you were hoping for but it is going to happen. It is up to you to reform your own thinking to accept the reality of the situation. Each one will come to that in their own time. (Well, maybe not YK!)
Personally, I see no real harm in entertaining ideas about Christianity and God that cannot be irrefutably proven. God is who you make God to be, not what someone else tells you. You can entertain all sorts of ideas, even from outside Christianity, and then make up your own mind. Rest assured, God will not be dissapointed in you no matter what you adopt as your own belief. I would associate with any local church, Christian or not, if I liked the people and they allowed me to hold to my own beliefs. There is not much chance of that happening in the local JW community. I like most of the people but I can't open my mouth around them for fear I will say something that scares or angers them. If they can someday figure out how to undo all the mind control crap that the org has used up till now to control the free thinking of the brothers and sisters than there may be a chance that I could rejoin their "reformed" group. Do you think that is likely? Anyone? NOT!
So, there really is not much hope of any useful reform toward a more open and accepting organization. The mind control will continue for it is the foundation of what they are all about. They really don't care that I have lost all my family and friends. They just want to keep what they have. They don't want any of us back. And I think they are pretty confident that God is not going to come down out of heaven and destroy them. That kind of fear is for the stupid atomotons who they employ and over whom they play the master. It is a ruse. A variation on the old "hell-fire" ranchor used for centuries by their cousins the Roman Catholic Church.
My choice was to walk away. The healing moved faster after I made that decision. It has allowed me to see things I never acknowledged before about the world we live in. To be sure, the con being played by the WTS is only a tip of the iceburg. You'll want to throw everything out and start over if you're like me. But other's will suggest that you not "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Whatever you are comfortable with. But I can tell you that the Bible used by the Catholics is subject to as much criticism as is the JW's "reformed" translation. Same can be said about all the Protestant variations, and non-Christian religions as well. After experiencing the WTS not much can stand up to scrutiny. I've settled on a position that can be explained with "I'm open to anything and just about anything is possible but I'll be damned if I'm going to adopt anybody else's creed without a good fight". If I've learned anything from this it's that I'm probably not right, whatever I decide is "true", and it could just as easily go the other way, that is, whatever I decide is right. There are no good solid answers to theological questions, with the exception of that which is right for you personally.
Good luck.
Sean
i was in the town this morning and saw a little cluster of jws leaving the kingdom hall, clutching their ministry bags, eager to go out into the field service.... well, maybe eager isnt quite the right word.... anyway, i thought to myself - how many people will they convert today?
one, two, a whole family?
the more obvious answer is none at all.
Arg said,
>The negative figures in the U.S. can be looked at positively. As the last remaining sheep are gathered, the work would slow down. This is another sign that Jehovah's Day is near.<
The figures can mean anything you want them to mean. I know you're just trying to be positive, but your comment is meaningless. This same "sign" is being read by others in your organization as indicative of something other than Jah's blessing. And the "day is near" loses it's force after 20, 30, 40 and more years of "doing the work". In reality, ther is no way you can prove your statement that the figures are a "sign that Jehovah's Day is near." Were you to actually embark on a research assignment to do just that you will soon find yourself facing your own crisis of conscience.
I spent more than 20 years confidently spreading the very same message you are currently engaging in. I taught people that the "generation" was passing away and that we were very close to the end. I could explain the 607 to 1914 chronology backward and forward and I still can. I believed it fully and was very good at convincing others of it's validity. Then the WTS said I should no longer teach the "generation" theory and has abandoned the emphasis on the 607 chronology while also waffling on the "seperating work" doctrine and clouding the identity of the "holy ones". All that I used to teach has changed. I was asked to learn new techniques to explain the "truth" in modern terms. But how could I take back all that I had confidently preached to hundreds and thousands of people? How could I explain that I was mistaken? What I was teaching as the "truth" was in fact not the "truth". It has changed and now the "truth" is morphing into what I was taught to be part of an evil "Babylon the Great". Believe me, you do not know what you are talking about. You may be sincere and really want to help people. But you do them no service by parroting what the WTS is telling you is the "truth". They will tell you something else tomorrow and expect you to support that as the "truth" whether it resembles what you preach now or not.
It intrigues me that you are here posting in this board. You are defintely welcome here. But the WTS has been very clear about sharing with "apostates" on the Internet. Perhaps you feel you can inventive and work out your own method of reaching out to people who may be searching for the "truth" here but are otherwise being mislead by "weak" ones. I don't know your motives. But it does belie any claim you may have to obedience to Jehovah's Faithful & Discreet Slave. So, you may already question their claim to be God's Channel and His only interpreter of scripture. If you really want the answer you will find it here. But you may not like the way it make you feel. No one like to be called a fool, but you cannot escape that if you really want to know the truth. Are you strong enough?
Sean
