there are a couple of ideas on this.
one is that satan is a corruption of the egyptian god set who murdered the god osiris and was avenged by horus.. the second is found in the religion of the persian zoroaster, who professed the good god ahura mazda who was at war with the evil god angra mainyu, later known as arhiman.
the zoroastrian concept of hell is almost a mirror image of the jewish hell, and zoroaster's religion even had the concept of a purgatory, as well as a last judgement.
Dansk,
I have read much of what you mentioned before. I read an article some time back that made the point, that Satan in the earliest parts of Hebrew beliefs was not an evil dieity, but was more or less the prosecuter/tester of humans for God himself. Quite different then the Satan of modern jeudeo/christian/muslim beliefs. He was not the enemy of God, but his assistant.
Seedy
there are a couple of ideas on this.
one is that satan is a corruption of the egyptian god set who murdered the god osiris and was avenged by horus.. the second is found in the religion of the persian zoroaster, who professed the good god ahura mazda who was at war with the evil god angra mainyu, later known as arhiman.
the zoroastrian concept of hell is almost a mirror image of the jewish hell, and zoroaster's religion even had the concept of a purgatory, as well as a last judgement.
Of course Satan exists, he is the reason little babies die at an early age, he is the reason that Hitler existed (and others like him), he's the reason we are tempted with ludeness, money, crime, ect ect.
Funny how people want to put the immoral parts of human life on a mythological personage, when it really boils down to just who these people are. Satan is not the reason we make mistakes, he is not the reason bad things happen to us. I find most of the time, we make our own problems and want a "Scape Goat" to blame it on. Oh yeah that's another one, "Scape Goats" an old Hebrew practice adopted from the Canaanites.
Seedy
first, let me start by saying i respect and honor the right of anyone to spread their message.
i do not descriminate against anyones church.
in the u.s. we are fortunate enough to enjoy that right.. that said, a jehovah's decided that the death of my father would be a good time to send a letter to my mother.
Actually this was encouraged by the Dubs, back in the days when I was one (I have little doubt that it has changed any). It to me is the hit em while their down senerio. Some of the ones that had a herd time getting out in service were encouraged to write letters to people they found in the Obits and give them a witness about the ability for the loved one to be seen again in Paradise. To me it's sick to try and make converts when a person is not in their best thinking mode.
Seedy
there have been many discussions on this board about the hope that we all have that the wts organization would tumble.. some have thought that the internet will play a big role ( i think so), others think that it is abuse issues, others still think it might be doctrinal issues.. if the wts was to take a fall, would there be a break off group in your opinion?
would there be the die-hard witnesses that would start a division, take over perhaps?
would some governing body members go one way, and others go another way?
There actually is a sort of splinter group already, they are in Romania called "The True Faith Jehovah's Witnesses", they are a group of Rutherfordites that when the Iron Curtain fell refused to reunite with the WTBTS becasue the doctrines had changed as they had. They now consider the WTBTS as an apostate group, much like the Bible Students (Russellites) do.
Seedy
i understand many of you are not coming to green bay, or you are coming to green bay and doing something besides being at the party that xenawarrior has worked so hard to arrange for us.
i also know why and i must tell you i'm terribly disappointed.
the only chance in months to see many of you, yet this has no meaning whatsoever.
Actually, I'll be in MN during the festivties date, but I will be visiting my Daughter and Grandkids, otherwise I would love to come and meet many of you folks. While I'm in MN I am hoping to meet some here that are not going to GB. Hopefully next year I will be able to schedule my trip to the US so I can make an apostofest. I onl;y make a trip back to the states once a year so I have to make the most of it with my family.
Seedy
i have been doing "scriptural battle" with my mother and step-father who have been practicing witnesses for nearly 40 years (i did not grow up in their household), and i need an answer to a question i have not been able to find on every jw website i have been scouring.
perhaps someone out there can enlighten me!(?).
i am trying to understand where the wtbs got the idea that they are "jehovah's faithful and discreet slave"?
Up until about the late 1920's to early 1930's there was no FDS "Class" , the Faithful slave was considered to be Pastor Russell, he was the only one not a group. When Da Judge made his hostile take over of the WTS, that was changed he made the doctrine switch and made the WTS his to run as he felt and the FDS became a "Class" of people rather then one person. Up until his passing away (or was it passing out) he pretty much ran everything with Freddy as his bible scholar and chief doctrine setter. The Governing body had little power until the Judge passed away, although there had been a GB set up by Pastor Russell.
Not too sure of this accuracy, because I was taking this from memory, but I do remember there is a website that goes through the development of the WTBTS and how the GB ended up coming to power. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
Seedy
i've struggled with wanting to be 'something' mostly probably to fill that hole that was left and to try and belong somewhere, anywhere really.
so i've tried penecostal, presbyterian, united churches but they all seem fake.
i always compared everything to the jw's, and didn't even realize it.
None, I have no religon and very much like it that way. I am what would be described as an agnostic-pagan, pretty much a panthiest. I feel we are all part of the universal energy and that energy is not a person or god but just an energy. To me the idea of a God/dess, is far removed from my nature.
Seedy
i cam close to being disfellowshipped once,i was a servant so they only took awy all of my duties,and priv's.but i know a sister even dated her for 10 months who has been disfellowshipped 3 times.it was kind of funny because her 2 fleshly sisters got disfellow'ed around the same time and they all didnt seem to care and went to jamaica for 3 weeks.1 of them even came back pregnant.
Yes my now Ex-Wife she was DF'd for adultry, then again for her drinking problem, then again for adultry after her and I were Divorced, she was publically reproved a few times ( I don't remember how many) for her drinking and her driving drunk becasue she had about 4 DUI/DWI's. Funny though, both the guys she slept with never were DF'd, even though neither one of them were really very active in the Org and she was the one that went to the elders. One however just happened to be the PO's brother, who slept with anything that had female sex organs. The other is now her husband. I'm glad he's got her now, he can babysit her.
I was DF'd once, had never ever been reproved either privite or public. When I was DF'd I never showed up for the Kangaroo Court, I told em to stuff it where the sun don't shine.
Seedy
some of my comments (and that of others) on other threads have highlighted a basic differance between those of us who belieave jesus christ did exist, and those of us who recon he did not.
i belieave jesus as described in the gospells did not exist.
so i decided to start a thread that adresses this issue face on.
Hoobereus, this is what you said:
I have already presented 8 early witness to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ under Pilate (some Biblical, some secular). The crucifixion by Pilate is discussed in Encyclpedias as being historical
Now the point you said is "Secular witnesses" and there are none, these guys saw nothing they only wrote by tradition. The Secular writinngs you gave were not eyewitnesses. That makes them actually hearsay, becasue they have nothing to back them up. As far as the acts of Pilot, that is considered to be a Heritical writing by most christian sects, so how could you refer to that as a source?
As far a Jeffery Lowder saying that he beleives that Jesus was a real person, I can accept that, and may be it's true, but again the only reference that is truly accepted by most all scholars as being genuine is the reference to James the brother of Jesus, the so called Christ. Now in actuallity that is not a reference to Jesus that is actually a reference to the myth of Jesus and the passed down tradition. Again there is estimated to have been at least 20 Josuha's in the area at the time and the idea the the combination of James being a brother of a josuha is quite likely becasue both names were very common in that day.
Seedy
Edit note: I posted this and then realized what I typed and couldn't edit it earlier
some of my comments (and that of others) on other threads have highlighted a basic differance between those of us who belieave jesus christ did exist, and those of us who recon he did not.
i belieave jesus as described in the gospells did not exist.
so i decided to start a thread that adresses this issue face on.
Oh and Hoberous, you gave no "eyewittness" to the crucifiction of Jesus, you gave references to people who lived or wrote 60 years or more later. You use the bible as a source of authority, yet the bible cannot be used in this because it is not known who wrote books or even truly when. If it was used in a court of Law it would have to be thrown out because it's source cannot be proven with accuracy and fact, it is shrouded with Questions and doubts.
Seedy
