Terry,
An interesting post, as usual.
I'm not sure I see the same modern parallel as you do between Rome and the WTS.
While the Org early-on adapted quickly to the use of technology - mass printing, slideshows, radio and the phonograph, it has not continued that trend at all.
TV has hardly been used at all, and film and DVDs are used very limitedly. WTS music is a joke compared to how the evangelical churches use gospel and rock. Computers and the Internet? Again, very limited use - an informational website with absolutely no interaction in the form of comments, blogs or discussion threads.
Their attack on the Quotes site, was to me, an indication of their ignorance of the Net, not so much a "shot over the bow." What was the result of that action? The Quotes site was reproduced all over the Internet. Instead of one place, it became available in 100 places - far too many for the WTS to effectively challenge, and if they do, it'll be reproduced in 1000 places, or 10,000, as the ex-JW movement grows.
I'm not sure what the sleeping giant can do. To attack the Internet just continues to draw attention to it. The JWs may have started as an aggressive religion, but for the past half century, their tactic has been to ignore their critics, and when challenged, to quietly take things to court or settle with a gag order.
Christ, it took Ray Franz and Fred Rusk five years to get them to even acknowledge their responsibility for emphasizing 1975! No, I don't see the WTS as being at all aggressive where it's critics are concerned. How did the WTS handle the Dateline expose? It disfellowshipped the critics, released a press statement and kept completely quiet about it in the literature. The typical Witness has no idea about any of this - they are ignorant of the mainstream press and hear nothing about these controversies in the Society's publications.
Any more specific ideas on what the WTS might do, Terry? Like I said, they will not get involved in open debate on any of these issues, because they will always lose.
Witness apologists that come on these sites either leave VERY quickly, or they switch sides!
S4
Seeker4
JoinedPosts by Seeker4
-
48
Was the Watchtower taken off guard by the internet and XJW forums
by JH indo you think that the internet and xjw forums caught the watchtower off guard?
just a few years ago, disfellowshipped ones were powerless and rendered silent by the watchtower.. to what degree do you think the internet has made life difficult for the watchtower?.
-
-
Seeker4
-
48
Was the Watchtower taken off guard by the internet and XJW forums
by JH indo you think that the internet and xjw forums caught the watchtower off guard?
just a few years ago, disfellowshipped ones were powerless and rendered silent by the watchtower.. to what degree do you think the internet has made life difficult for the watchtower?.
-
-
Seeker4
They are not a forward looking organization. That requires creative and critical thinking skills. Those are discouraged, and any members who have them are certainly never going to be put into responsible positions.
The WTS is a reactionary religion today, exisiting solely to keep itself existing, to keep the publishing empire going, even if in diminished form.
The Internet completely blindsided the WTS, and scares them to death. The main reason is that, in a totally open exchange of ideas, the WTS just gets the shit beaten out of it everytime. Thus their way of dealing with the Net is to vilify and demonize it, warning the rank and file to avoid it. Scare tactics! This works with the sheep, but the thinking members see through it eventually, check things out online, and leave the WTS and end up here on JWD!
On a discussion board like this, it doesn't matter if you're an elder or a CO or a Bethelite. Threatening someone here with being DFed or publicly reproved is meaningless. Appealing to your authority as an elder or an anointed one doesn't work here. Here it's put up or shut up. On these boards, if you make a statement, you better goddamn be able to back it up with facts, reason, logic and evidence, and it better be a hell of a lot more than a quote from a Watchtower magazine or someone on the Governing Body! We'll shred you in a second if you're thinking is sloppy, or if you don't know what you're talking about, or if you're "facts" are unsupportable or outright fabrications.
THAT'S why the WTS is scared of XJW forums - they can't begin to hold their own in the free and open debate of ideas. The WTS house of cards falls flat everytime. Their theology is indefensible when it's tossed into the ring of open and public debate.
Yeah! Three cheers for the Internet!!!
S4
-
23
Underground Lurker....Coming up for air.....
by Bourne ini have been a lurker for the last year...finally got the courage to post.
i guess you could say that i have successfully completed a "fade", although that was not my initial intent.
due to my being in an "unscriptural" separation for a number of months, (that, combined with my paranoia, hence, the alias) i have been forced to go underground.
-
-
Seeker4
Welcome Bourne.
You wouldn't happen to be my son-in-law, would you? Or better yet, my JW daughter pretending to be a guy? I'd love that!
They are in what the elders, some of them at least, are telling her is an unscriptural seperation, and they too are trying to deal with the elders' invasion of their marriage. You sound too articulate to be my son in law, and too aware of the shortcomings of the WTS to be my daughter.
Oh, darn. Welcome anyway,
S4
-
62
August KM provides solid evidence of declining JW morale
by sir82 inas you may or may not recall, the february '07 km (for the us) had a huge article, taking up the full 4 page insert, on the "blessings" of auxiliary pioneering.
the part covering that insert took up the entire service meeting (aside form the announcements).
the "encouragement" was that the us branch had set a goal of 160,000 auxiliary pioneers for the month of april ("if only one of every 6 publishers signs up, we can make it!")..
-
-
Seeker4
Would be interested in more info on the "peak publisher" statistics.
Just a reminder, though. Peak publisher info is very misleading. It's akin to using the Memorial attendance as an indicator of actual week by week meeting attendance. Peak numbers like that are raised by some publishers being counted twice due to not turning in their time the month before, and the effort to get "everyone" out that month.
So brother inactive goes out that month for 2 hours, and sister irregular makes sure she's out a few hours as well, then they go back to doing little or nothing. Multiply that by a few hundred thousand, and you get the "peak" numbers, which are meaningless.
S4
-
70
Most Ex-JWs R Not Active in the Anti-JW Community. Maybe 1%? Any thoughts?
by Seeker4 inyesterday i called a family on the west coast that were in my congregation 18 years ago.
between parents, kids and marriage partners, there were six of them who had been witnesses.
they have all faded, and have had nothing to do with the witnesses for at least 15 year or more.. yet, none of them is in any way active even in looking at the ex-jw sites online.
-
-
Seeker4
fedorE - Welcome. Glad to have your voice join the discussion.
"I have always thought a walk away believer is in the saddest position of all." Yes. There are far too many ex-JWs who still consider it "the truth" and who live a life of guilt and fear that they'll die soon at Armageddon. Maybe one thing we could try to do more is just share with them in a non-aggressive way, when the opportunity presents itself, why we know that the WTS is not what it claims and there is no need to fear it or WT teachings.
I try to do that as often as possible, and it's usually productive in helping people reassess the WTS.
S4
-
26
THIS IS MY STORY (And I'm Sticking To It)
by snowbird ini joined this forum on 1may2007 with a promise that i would tell more about myself as time went on.
well, here goes.. i was born and raised in the black belt of alabama in wilcox county.
it is supposedly called the black belt due to the color of the soil, but i have a strong suspicion it is also due to the fact that there is such a heavy concentration of black people in the dozen or more counties that make up the black belt.. my parents were sharecroppers which was simply a form of whitewashed slavery.
-
-
Seeker4
Snowbird,
Considering the rough circumstances of your childhood, I would say you inherited your father's intelligence, and then some. You write wonderfully, and you've got a great story.
You join a huge community of others who share your doubts and have had the courage to walk away from Watchtowerland and the idiocy of that faithful and discreet slave the WTS worships.
Glad you decided to join this board, and even happier that you've shared such a terrific story.
S4
-
4
Am I wishful thinking?
by lavendar indo you think there are more witnesses getting out of the wts than ever before?
i'd like to think so, cause that gives me hope for our son.
(he's married to a jw and is slowly being brainwashed).
-
-
Seeker4
Here are some takes on this idea, and my own personal thoughts, on a thread I started the other day:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/138423/1.ashx
Yes. I think more people are leaving and fewer are entering than ever. I also think this will be a long, slow slide to oblivion.
S4
-
70
Most Ex-JWs R Not Active in the Anti-JW Community. Maybe 1%? Any thoughts?
by Seeker4 inyesterday i called a family on the west coast that were in my congregation 18 years ago.
between parents, kids and marriage partners, there were six of them who had been witnesses.
they have all faded, and have had nothing to do with the witnesses for at least 15 year or more.. yet, none of them is in any way active even in looking at the ex-jw sites online.
-
-
Seeker4
Marcel,
These comments of yours pissed me off, at first: "i think thats just because most ppl dont think much about "the truth". they leave because they want to do things which are forbidden in the group or are disappointed by things happened in the local congregation - some of them still believe its the "truth". thats all. not very much leave because of false doctrines other signs without having a "sin" in first place."
It pissed me off because that's sort of the JW line on things - people leave 'cause they want to do things that are forbidden, usually involving sex! But, I have to admit, to a great degree what you wrote is true. What I hate about the JW take on this is that they see these as the only reasons people leave, and I know that there are a ton of us on here who have left for reasons of logic, science and reason - not just because we wanted a freer sex life!
Willyloman - I understand your post perfectly. I share many of your feelings. Well put.
S4
-
70
Most Ex-JWs R Not Active in the Anti-JW Community. Maybe 1%? Any thoughts?
by Seeker4 inyesterday i called a family on the west coast that were in my congregation 18 years ago.
between parents, kids and marriage partners, there were six of them who had been witnesses.
they have all faded, and have had nothing to do with the witnesses for at least 15 year or more.. yet, none of them is in any way active even in looking at the ex-jw sites online.
-
-
Seeker4
Oops! Double post. Sorry.
S4
-
38
Is it true that the WT uses hypnosis covertly during KH meetings?
by seatrout ini personally am a sceptic regarding the validity of hypnosis as a form of mind control.
i associate it with entertainment tricks pulled by stage performers.. i never experienced any weird happenings during my only two visits to a kh.
is anyone able to refute me?
-
-
Seeker4
Some of this stuff is laughable. Heathen especially. Are you off your meds and hearing voices? Your ideas are completely bonkers.
No, having been in charge of thousands of meetings over decades of time, and dozens of assemblies and conventions, I can assure you that there is no electronic tomfoolery going, no voice-unders, no voice-overs, no suggestive tape loops, no hypnotic anything, covert or non-covert. The answer to your thread question is a resounding NO!
There is, as has been mentioned, the constant layering of the same ideas over and over. There is a total lack of critical thinking presented, and there is at times over-powering boredom. Often hypnotism would have been a welcome relief!
It's a silly idea, and completely without a basis in fact. Any long time, formerly active JW will verify this.
S4