Posts by simwitness

8

"Three Dissertations" -- The Witness ...

by accuracy in

back in the 1517 the catholic priest martin luther posted his "95 theses" on the door of a church in wittenberg and began the protestant reformation.

martin luther did not mean to start a revolution, though he attacked certain legalistic doctrines of the church and questioned the authority of the pope.

called to recant, he replied, "unless i am convinced of error by the testimony of scripture or by clear reason, i cannot and will not recant anything, for it is neither safe nor honest to act against one's conscience.".

simwitness

Can someone please post details on how to obtain this book?

Thanks!

1

WT Quote that Abraham & co. have earthly hope?

by stocwach in

i am looking for a specific example in any wt publications where the society unequivocally believes faithful men of old have an earthly hope, an not a heavenly one.. thanks in advance!

simwitness

Look up "Beth-Sarim" in the older publications... 2 come to mind:

"The New World" Pg 104.
"Millions now living will never die"

Both by Rutherford.

23

Anyone heard of or been through a JW exorcism?

by Mimilly in

greetings, and wow!

did i enter this forum with a biggie.

i've been lurking for quite awhile - with some threads, laughing to tears, and others, reliving those years.

simwitness

Great Quote:

*** w66 12/15 *** p739
Some persons have reported gaining relief by burning letters from relatives who dabble in spiritism. Even if an article from a spiritist is an expensive one, is keeping it worth the danger? One woman was tormented for years by the demons; finally she got rid of many household effects that came from a spiritistic relative. "The material loss," she wrote, "was worth the peaceful calm that came over our house and family."

COnsidering the WTBS cited Johannes Greber for "support" on a number of occasions! For those that are unaware, Johannes Greber was well known as a spiritist! 2 books he wrote: "Communicating with the Spirit world of God" and he had his own translation of the New Testament, which the WTBS used for a number of years as "support" for thier John 1:1 "a god" translation!

He (Greber) has been cited a number of times in the WTBS publications!
See http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/spiritism.htm (bottom half of the page) for details!

WOW!

I guess it's time to have me a book burnin!

10

One little lie spoils the whole thing....

by simwitness in

jw
friends

one thing i remember the most about being "in the truth" was the basic premise that all other religious orgs on the earth at one time or another taught a lie (and or still was teaching lies).

this was the "crowning jewel" for the wtbs.

they never "lied".. in a recent conversation with an elder, he made mention of this again.

simwitness

As I said earlier, that is not a "quote" but the gist of the argument.

Basically he was saying that "God hates lies, false religion (all but the WTBS) teach lies (like christmas, etc..), Therefore God will not recognize them." And of course, he said that any lie was enough to do this.

He also pointed to Mathew 7:21-23 as a "proof" for this.

21.Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven
22.Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?
23:And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
-NKJV from www.blueletterbible.com

10

One little lie spoils the whole thing....

by simwitness in

jw
friends

one thing i remember the most about being "in the truth" was the basic premise that all other religious orgs on the earth at one time or another taught a lie (and or still was teaching lies).

this was the "crowning jewel" for the wtbs.

they never "lied".. in a recent conversation with an elder, he made mention of this again.

simwitness

You are correct, that "quote" was not exactly what was said, just the gist of it.

IMHO, the majority of follower's (and this included the majority of the elders that I am aquainted with) do not know the "BS" that they sell. They Honestly believe what the WTBS spills out.

If they have followed the societys "dont question us" dialogue, then they do not realize the BS, and even if they did, they would not state it.

Does a Pig "know" that it is rolling around in the mud? If it does, does it "care"? Or does it continue because it is comfortable?

...

10

One little lie spoils the whole thing....

by simwitness in

jw
friends

one thing i remember the most about being "in the truth" was the basic premise that all other religious orgs on the earth at one time or another taught a lie (and or still was teaching lies).

this was the "crowning jewel" for the wtbs.

they never "lied".. in a recent conversation with an elder, he made mention of this again.

simwitness

Just found this link:

http://www.joinme.net/chuck4002/smythrussell.html

I think it serves to show that the "lie" to the "Followers" started from the very beginning!

(More recent lies are of course even more helpful, since most "followers" will say that that is "ancient history" and not relevant to the works)...

By the way, anyone else ever get the "the end's justify the means" when discussing this stuff with them?

10

One little lie spoils the whole thing....

by simwitness in

jw
friends

one thing i remember the most about being "in the truth" was the basic premise that all other religious orgs on the earth at one time or another taught a lie (and or still was teaching lies).

this was the "crowning jewel" for the wtbs.

they never "lied".. in a recent conversation with an elder, he made mention of this again.

simwitness

One thing I remember the most about being "in the truth" was the basic premise that all other religious orgs on the earth at one time or another taught a lie (and or still was teaching lies). This was the "crowning jewel" for the WTBS. They never "lied".

In a recent conversation with an elder, he made mention of this again. He stated: "If there is any lie, then God would not recognize them, or their service..." Of course, he still maintains that the WTBS has _never_lied. His prime example against other org's teachings is Christmas. ("It is celebrated as christ's b-day, when it is not").

Of course, any reasoning about wether or not they actually "teach it" as his b-day vs. the symbolic nature of it only goes downhill from there.

My question for the group:
What would be your "prime example" of an "in your face" lie that you could "prove" the Watchtower taught to it's followers?

I think it would be extremely telling to have a "we never did/said this/that" with a subsequent proof that they did.

(IMHO, this cannot be a "lie" to the outside folks (since they would quote "theocratic warfare".) So it has to be a lie to the followers thru one of their own publications.

Since the WTBS nit picks that any amount of "lying" by another org disqualifies them, I think that applies to the WTBS as well.

Some of the ones that come to my mind:
1. thier revisionist history of thier own org. (I actually intend to show this elder the quote in the "divine pourpose" book where they state that they never published a biography of russel alongside of the actual "Divine plan of the ages" that contains said biography)

2. The misleading "mis quotes" of external sources. The ones from the Evolution/Creation book are the first to come to mind.

3. I love the preface to the Rutherford Light book:

No Credit is due and none should be given to any man for what appears herein. Te Revelation is God's, given to his beloved Son for the benefit of his servants and sent to them by the angels of the Lord.

versus the current lines that they "don't claim to be inspired..."

Your thoughts?

About the blood "law"...

by simwitness in

i have been giving the blood issue alot of thought lately, and a "new" (to me anyway) approach to discussing why the wtbs is "wrong" on it came to mind.. i have found that discussing the "what does abstain really mean" and the "it was all about eating it, since the medical use didn't exist at the time" approach never truly works, you end up in an argument over words instead of meaning.. my thought:.

at times in the ot, did god withhold punishment for sins that were committed by the faithful?

if god could withold judgment for those sins, shouldn't the members of his "organization" do the same?

simwitness

I have been giving the blood issue alot of thought lately, and a "new" (to me anyway) approach to discussing why the WTBS is "wrong" on it came to mind.

I have found that discussing the "what does abstain really mean" and the "it was all about eating it, since the medical use didn't exist at the time" approach never truly works, you end up in an argument over words instead of meaning.

My thought:
At times in the OT, did God withhold punishment for sins that were committed by the faithful? If God could withold judgment for those sins, shouldn't the members of his "organization" do the same? (If not more so, since they are not to sit in judgment to begin with)?

This actually goes way beyond the Blood issue itself, but since the WTBS holds the blood issue at such lengths, it seems that this is an easier line of reasoning then vs other "apostacy" stuff.

What are your thoughts on this?

116

WHAT ABOUT THE STUMBLING BLOCKS?

by You Know in

the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be jehovahs organization.

thats why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that jehovahs witnesses are not who we say we are.

unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.

simwitness

You know:

Still waiting for a response from you on my earlier post.

....

116

WHAT ABOUT THE STUMBLING BLOCKS?

by You Know in

the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be jehovahs organization.

thats why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that jehovahs witnesses are not who we say we are.

unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.

simwitness

You Know:

a few things:

1. I did not say that a king did not have Power. I said that a "true king" did not NEED power to ASSERT his authority.

2. You quoted:
"There are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the kingdom of God already come in POWER." Mark 9:1

So, wouldn't that mean that the kingdom of god is already here (and has been?)? Or are those people still walking around? (or was it not really meant for them to whom it was said and it was "really" meant for "some other time").

3. If Jesus was the "fullfillment" of the Law, doesnt that mean that god has fullfilled his requirements under it? and that he has completed all of his requirements?

4. If you are looking for an "earhly kingdom" (as the Pharisees were) aren't you missing the point? Christ's Kingdom is not of this earth, it is a spiritual one. All those who recognize him as king are therefore his subjects, and his Kingdom is created.

......